Steve Bruce

[dn1982]

Just now, Dave J said:

It’s taken him a year and a bit to reach a top 5 berth - I reckon both RDM & Garde would have done it in less - but hey that’s just my view - not a fan tbh with you 

I don't think he's ever run away with this league he just grinds out enough results to get his teams up. I'll take that. I'll enjoy the results and not the football. 

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

It's horses for courses, Trent. I think you'd be pushed to find someone who thinks that he's the right man for the rebuild beyond promotion but that's not the issue that we're facing right now. The kind of guy who is right for the rebuild in the Premier league could easily not be the right guy for the situation we find ourselves in now and I think that Adkins at Southampton is a good example of that. I think we'd find it hard to find someone who can fit both profiles. 

As for me, I'm only loyal to results when it comes to our incumbent manager (or any, come to think of it)  - if Bruce is delivering then that's fine by me, if he doesn't for a prolonged period then I'd want him out like I have done at earlier points. 

It is, that is true. It remains to be seen if Bruce’s form means anything or if he needs sending to the glue factory.

I still have my doubts he is the man for the job at hand based on his tenure to date but recent results (more than performances) have been encouraging.

Just thought I’d answer as one of his main detractors.

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

Well personally... I don't think I will ever be a fan, based on what I've seen so far I just don't ever think he will be the sort of manager I want to be in charge of this and responsible for trying to rebuild it. For a whole host of reasons.

I'm willing him to achieve our aim of promotion but even if its achieved I would still like to see him replaced in the summer. I appreciate that might be odd to some, unpalatable even but I just don't enjoy his approach to the game or think that it will be good enough if we are to really rebuild this club which it needs.

I see Bruce as a means to an end, I did when he was appointed and do even more so now.

Spot on .

[Vive_La_Villa]

As mentioned earlier I was pleasantly suprised to see us 2nd in the 10 game form chart.  I'd like to think the first 3 games was down to new players gelling, still not sure of team selection, confidence low etc. Probably wishful thinking but 10 game form is encouraging and the one defeat in that run was to team what will most likely finish top. 

2nd place is up for grabs. 

[Dave J]

34 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Bruce wants to the fan base over he needs to be going to the sty and winning 

With due respect this does not cut it with me, I would have preferred that we had showed up at the dingles and given them a game tbh with you - as I honestly feel this would have proved more of a marker of where we would like to be, opposed to beating a blues side in their current situation - but I do see where you are coming from in popularity terms.

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, Dave J said:

With due respect this does not cut it with me, I would have preferred that we had showed up at the dingles and given them a game tbh with you - as I honestly feel this would have proved more of a marker of where we would like to be, opposed to beating a blues side in their current situation - but I do see where you are coming from in popularity terms.

Yes it was a poor performance but there will be times where we play poor or down win. Wolves away was always going to be tough.

we didn't take it to them that games over with no really interested in focusing on the past more interested in the up coming games and how we perform 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Demitri_C

[NurembergVillan]

We'd all say David Wagner is looking like a good manager.  He's done well.  Really well actually.

He took over at Huddersfield in November 2015, and guided them to 19th place with a pretty poor record.  The following season they came flying out of the blocks, went on a patchy run around October, flew again for a couple of months and then stumbled home and into the play-offs where they twice won on penalties.

I think it's interesting to look at how different his second season was compared to his first, and how a good many folks would've seen him as a Poundland (or Dollarama, or Eurostore depending on how you view it) Jürgen Klopp in the summer of 2016.  I think to a certain extent that first part of his tenure should be written off, and the impact of his second season looked at in isolation.  He needed time to get things to work, and to get his influx of players to gel.

Sound familiar?  Let's not forget, Aston Villa were stinking out the Premier League for a good few years before we became the turd that WOULD flush.  Bruce inherited a club in absolute ruins.  Mass redundancies, sub-standard players on high wages, players absolutely taking the piss, a coaching team in a mess, and a relatively new leadership team.  The place was on course to do what Sunderland are doing now, but potentially even worse.

I'm not his biggest fan, and I'm not sure how well he'd fair with us in the Premier League.  To a certain extent it'll depending on the cash available as to how ANY manager will fair in the PL these days.  But I think it's unfair to now dwell too much on what we did last season.  We should judge him on this season, and what I've seen this season hasn't blown me away - but it has generally improved as we've gone along.  Apart from that Wolves match, we've seen the goalkeeper get better and look more confident, the defence look more of a unit and become increasingly difficult to breach, the midfield starting to offer some goals and work together (although it's still the weak area for me), and a forward line with a level of versatility and options.  We've even seen some variance in SB's tactics depending on opposition and circumstance.

When working with sports scientists I've heard them talk a lot about "marginal gains".  Incremental advantages that build and eventually make a difference.  I feel like we're starting to see some of that this season, and I'd be hard pressed to say he's not doing a good job at this moment in time.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Who cares ? We were on our way to winning the title , and like I said ,you can't compare that team to today's team . No one listens to a couple of Stoke supporters. 

It was never my intention to compare the  two situations......just illustrating the thoughts at the time of 2 opposing fans.

My point was........fans will find fault with anything.....like you aptly say......who cares.

[sheepyvillian]

57 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Bruce wants to the fan base over he needs to be going to the sty and winning 

He won there last year , and that certainly didn't win me over . If we perform in the same manner as our last visit there , then I can assure you , their will be no winning me over, regardless of the result. 

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

We'd all say David Wagner is looking like a good manager.  He's done well.  Really well actually.

He took over at Huddersfield in November 2015, and guided them to 19th place with a pretty poor record.  The following season they came flying out of the blocks, went on a patchy run around October, flew again for a couple of months and then stumbled home and into the play-offs where they twice won on penalties.

I think it's interesting to look at how different his second season was compared to his first, and how a good many folks would've seen him as a Poundland (or Dollarama, or Eurostore depending on how you view it) Jürgen Klopp in the summer of 2016.  I think to a certain extent that first part of his tenure should be written off, and the impact of his second season looked at in isolation.  He needed time to get things to work, and to get his influx of players to gel.

Sound familiar?  Let's not forget, Aston Villa were stinking out the Premier League for a good few years before we became the turd that WOULD flush.  Bruce inherited a club in absolute ruins.  Mass redundancies, sub-standard players on high wages, players absolutely taking the piss, a coaching team in a mess, and a relatively new leadership team.  The place was on course to do what Sunderland are doing now, but potentially even worse.

I'm not his biggest fan, and I'm not sure how well he'd fair with us in the Premier League.  To a certain extent it'll depending on the cash available as to how ANY manager will fair in the PL these days.  But I think it's unfair to now dwell too much on what we did last season.  We should judge him on this season, and what I've seen this season hasn't blown me away - but it has generally improved as we've gone along.  Apart from that Wolves match, we've seen the goalkeeper get better and look more confident, the defence look more of a unit and become increasingly difficult to breach, the midfield starting to offer some goals and work together (although it's still the weak area for me), and a forward line with a level of versatility and options.  We've even seen some variance in SB's tactics depending on opposition and circumstance.

When working with sports scientists I've heard them talk a lot about "marginal gains".  Incremental advantages that build and eventually make a difference.  I feel like we're starting to see some of that this season, and I'd be hard pressed to say he's not doing a good job at this moment in time.

What a sensible resume.

Some of us do seem to latch on to a bit of success elsewhere as some sort of prerequisite.....as if its all they know best and we are all dumb.

I do get the critics points..... but its not fair to think its all as straightforward as some of us claim.

The rectification is progressive, not a sprint.

[TRO]

9 hours ago, vreitti said:

Absolutely, that's why I'm advocating an alternate approach, one in which we're either so far ahead that the last 10-15 minutes don't matter, or that we retain our legs for the whole 90+ minutes.

I'll buy in to that.

[TRO]

9 hours ago, dn1982 said:

But he's good enough to mount a challenge in this league and even though I think we should be playing far better football as long as we grind out enough wins to get up I'll take it. We will win more games by one goal than most and be having conversations about us playing crap and not finishing games off all season but ultimately this year is all about going up. Something BRuce knows how to do even if it's baffling having watched his team. 

To be successful at football at any level, you have to embrace the defensive and offensive side.....naturally fans will have the bits they favour and its usually the offensive side naturally.....but the defensive side is a necessary evil as much as it can frustrate us, its essential.

To not appreciate the defensive side of football, i think is naive.....that is not to say you have to spend most of the game practising it, but its quite normal to have to deal with an opponents attacks.

football is not usually a one way street, opponents do have a go back, why wouldn't they, you have to be prepared for it.

It is widely known that you build from the back and develop from there.....we need to accept that is the plan.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

It is, that is true. It remains to be seen if Bruce’s form means anything or if he needs sending to the glue factory.

I still have my doubts he is the man for the job at hand based on his tenure to date but recent results (more than performances) have been encouraging.

Just thought I’d answer as one of his main detractors.

10/10 for honesty

[TRO]

31 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

He won there last year , and that certainly didn't win me over . If we perform in the same manner as our last visit there , then I can assure you , their will be no winning me over, regardless of the result. 

Just an analogy.

if jimmy white was playing one side of the road and Steve Davis the other....the fans would flock to see Jimmy White.

.....but Steve Davis won all the trophies.

its just what you value, its opinions.

[DaveAV1]

28 minutes ago, TRO said:

The rectification is progressive, not a sprint

Progressive rectification, sounds like something to do with being romantically nourished....

[srsmithusa]

3 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Progressive rectification, sounds like something to do with being romantically nourished....

I don't know, I didn't respond to it because it sounded like some sexual deviance.  I was afraid I might like it.

[sheepyvillian]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

Just an analogy.

if jimmy white was playing one side of the road and Steve Davis the other....the fans would flock to see Jimmy White.

.....but Steve Davis won all the trophies.

its just what you value, its opinions.

And that's exactly what I'm expressing , an opinion. 

You honestly think Steve Davis didn't have fans ? You need to reassess that analogy .

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Progressive rectification, sounds like something to do with being romantically nourished....

Well, in the last 6-7 years or more of watching our team.....romantic nourishment was the last thing i thought of.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

And that's exactly what I'm expressing , an opinion. 

You honestly think Steve Davis didn't have fans ? You need to reassess that analogy .

No , of course he did.....thats your interpretation.....i am suggesting Jimmy would attract much more.

Edited October 24, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

And that's exactly what I'm expressing , an opinion. 

You honestly think Steve Davis didn't have fans ? You need to reassess that analogy .

I don't need to reassess the analogy, you need to reassess the point.

The fact Steve Davis had fans and yes he did......was not the point intended.

Edited October 24, 2017 by TRO