Steve Bruce

[sheepyvillian]

11 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I bet this sums up how the majority feel. Whenever it seems like we've turned a corner with performances we seem to turn to shit again. 

Im really hoping Millwall was a one off because it was pretty appalling. 

If every time we look like we've turned a corner only to put in a shit performance then logic say's Millwall was not a one off ,sadly .

[sheepyvillian]

11 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

Let me explain something.

I and many others who critisize Bruce want Villa to win/get promoted. Full stop.

We watch the games and are of course happy when we win because its good for AVFC which is what we want.

Also what we see in those winning games (draws/losses) which causes us concern is very much the reasons why we think we do lose/draw/drop pts.

We see it and comment on it. Therefore it is frustrating to see something that we (in our opinions) think is a problem for us, be the reason why we drop points.

We ALL want Villa to win promotion.

Those who support/reel of excuses for Bruce can feel free to do so.

Those who slate him stating why they do so equally.

The simple fact is. Wolves are showing us how to do it. We are staggering through a season. That stagger could result in enough ups to get us 2nd or top 6. The stagger could also mean another up-stagger could coincide with the 3 games of the playoffs. The stagger may also result in an opposite which condems us to a further season down here which may result in a number of further seasons down here.

IMHO if course, I think its more than a bit rich to patronise or condescend on someone who is of the opinion that this „flying by the seat of our pants“ is more likely to fail than succeed. ESPECIALLY when everyone to a man who has critisized Bruce for whatever has also stated „I HOPE I‘M WRONG“. Now I dont expect anyone supporting Bruce to hope they are wrong for us to fail just to equalize the admittance balance. But, what is it about the status quo that deems automatically right and the alternative automatically wrong?

You shouldn't have to prove your unconditional commitment to our great club . The fact is we play dire football ,and regardless of the managers win ratio, some of us want an Aston Villa that set out to entertain.  

[striker]

22 hours ago, TRO said:

Steve Bruce imo, plays to the strength of his players, nothing more nothing less....the better the players he gets to more likely he can break out of his mould....

TRO you make some very good points in your posts even though I don't agree with many of them but the above is just ridiculous.

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Nobody is to blame. The problem is the strength of the Championship has bypassed Bruce and his years of success. The level of coaching and management is higher than it's ever been. I think it's time we moved with it before we fall further behind yet again. 

Well warnock is not doing too bad......i think they are from a similar stable.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Dave J said:

Ultimately TRO the manager has to carry the can, that’s just how it is i’m Afraid - I have said this before that in my view once a player crosses the white line his manager can do nothing about misplaced passes or ill timed challenges etc - what he is however is responsible for the make up and balance of a team along with its intent and style of play - it’s structure and so on and for me Bruce does not instill these qualities in a team - I feel we are workmanlike , uninspiring and not a huge amount of intent to really take it to the opposition and this is why I will be glad to see his tenure bought to a close sooner rather than later.

Fair comment Dave......but lets hope we don't do a Rowett and end up going backwards again.

[Dave J]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

Fair comment Dave......but lets hope we don't do a Rowett and end up going backwards again.

I tend to think that fortune favours the brave - yes you are correct in as much that their is no guarantee that changing manager will assure promotion but hey we could all enjoy the ride significantly more that what’s happening right now - if we appoint a man with a totally new mindset imo 

[Dave J]

6 hours ago, striker said:

Steve Bruce imo, plays to the strength of his players, nothing more nothing less....the better the players he gets to more likely he can break out of his mould....

I think there is one or two who might not agree with you on this TRO.

Messah’s Hogan & Lansbury for starters imo 

[Villan_of_oz]

19 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

Let me explain something.

I and many others who critisize Bruce want Villa to win/get promoted. Full stop.

We watch the games and are of course happy when we win because its good for AVFC which is what we want.

Also what we see in those winning games (draws/losses) which causes us concern is very much the reasons why we think we do lose/draw/drop pts.

We see it and comment on it. Therefore it is frustrating to see something that we (in our opinions) think is a problem for us, be the reason why we drop points.

We ALL want Villa to win promotion.

Those who support/reel of excuses for Bruce can feel free to do so.

Those who slate him stating why they do so equally.

The simple fact is. Wolves are showing us how to do it. We are staggering through a season. That stagger could result in enough ups to get us 2nd or top 6. The stagger could also mean another up-stagger could coincide with the 3 games of the playoffs. The stagger may also result in an opposite which condems us to a further season down here which may result in a number of further seasons down here.

IMHO if course, I think its more than a bit rich to patronise or condescend on someone who is of the opinion that this „flying by the seat of our pants“ is more likely to fail than succeed. ESPECIALLY when everyone to a man who has critisized Bruce for whatever has also stated „I HOPE I‘M WRONG“. Now I dont expect anyone supporting Bruce to hope they are wrong for us to fail just to equalize the admittance balance. But, what is it about the status quo that deems automatically right and the alternative automatically wrong?

Legendary post. It sums up the exact situation just how it is. We are never going to all agree, it would be a pretty boring forum if we did.

For crying out loud, trying to change someone's opinion with random stats, theories and insults isn't going to work for either 'side'. 

I love this thread, it's drives me crazy but that's the joy of it. I want to read everyone's posts, comment and debate. 

No one is wrong, 

Go on tell me I'm wrong on that, I dare ya 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Villan_of_oz

[Demitri_C]

8 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

You shouldn't have to prove your unconditional commitment to our great club . The fact is we play dire football ,and regardless of the managers win ratio, some of us want an Aston Villa that set out to entertain.  

Yeah RDM tried that and look how miserably he failed. Bruces dour football is more effective I think we agree on that result wise.

Results mean more than style at the moment 

[Tomaszk]

20 hours ago, TRO said:

If pepe was here, he would have our lot playing free flowing football.....yeah.....He would turn Gabby in to shearer.....dream on.

Goodness me. Are you saying it's impossible to get our team passing the ball? Pep would certainly have us attempting to if you're wondering. And do you know what? We'd be doing it better than most others in the league as well. Because we have the best, if not second best squad. Easily.

Doesn't have to be Pep though, (I think he's busy winning umpteen league titles in a row with Man City) at least half the managers in this league would be doing a better job. They'd be trying to play ball, and this talented squad would be doing it. We might get a few less draws away from home, but we'd have a hell of a lot more wins and goals across the board.

I don't know what Bruce is trying to do aside from stifle us. Sadly, neither does he. He's done at this level of championship promotion candidates, and the next time he gets a job without incredible backing he will fall flat on his face.

[tomav84]

3 hours ago, Dave J said:

I tend to think that fortune favours the brave - yes you are correct in as much that their is no guarantee that changing manager will assure promotion but hey we could all enjoy the ride significantly more that what’s happening right now - if we appoint a man with a totally new mindset imo 

do you think blues are enjoying the ride at the moment?

[Lerner's Driver]

I realise it's somewhat intangible as questions go, which may be partly why no journalists ever ask it of Bruce, but how come we don't hear him directly challenged re: whether he too is worried about our poor performances (despite results), being a possible pre-cursor to not securing promotion this year.

I mean, he does frequently acknowledge the shit play saying things like, "well look... it wasn't pretty, but the lads have shown a certain resilience today", which is fine up to a point, but if he accepts there are imperfections, then surely there's an opening for further questioning about the specifics of why. 

Sadly, that journalistic persistence never seems to materialise and even if it did no doubt he'd shake it off with some more of his salt-of-the-earth Geordieisms, but I would like to see that line of questioning on record so we can return to it, as needs be. 

I guess it's more than any journo's job is worth to really dig like that?

Edited December 14, 2017 by Lerner's Driver

[AvfcRigo82]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah RDM tried that and look how miserably he failed. Bruces dour football is more effective I think we agree on that result wise.

Results mean more than style at the moment 

But we could be achievig more Demi and the results that we know we should be getting 3 points from, can be getting 3 pts from but get 1 or 0pts from is the problem that is the hidden core to a lot of the problems.

This is causes several negative ripple affects across the team as a consequence.

[Vive_La_Villa]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

Well warnock is not doing too bad......i think they are from a similar stable.

Can you imagine Warnock reaction if Cardiff played like we did Saturday? 

[hippo]

16 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

But we could be achievig more Demi and the results that we know we should be getting 3 points from, can be getting 3 pts from but get 1 or 0pts from is the problem that is the hidden core to a lot of the problems.

This is causes several negative ripple affects across the team as a consequence.

You won't win every game expect to win - thats never happened.

A good bench mark is 2pts per game - we are 5 pts off that. - But the question is, is that poor enough to be calling for the managers head right now (Dec 14). ? 

No it isn't - if we don't go up then yes review it (and the available options) at the end of the season. Even then I don't see who we get - for every David Wagner there's a Remi Garde. 

 

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

do you think blues are enjoying the ride at the moment?

No of course not and I did say there is no guarantee - equally when Zola was appointed I recall a sense of optimism by blues fans - and I do not believe citing one example is a reason not to twist is it? You could bring up Warnock again if we are to do this?

personally I would take a gamble that’s all I am saying and go for twist.

[hippo]

1 minute ago, Dave J said:

No of course not and I did say there is no guarantee - equally when Zola was appointed I recall a sense of optimism by blues fans - and I do not believe citing one example is a reason not to twist is it? You could bring up Warnock again if we are to do this?

personally I would take a gamble that’s all I am saying and go for twist.

So would you take this gamble today or at the end of the season ?

FWIW - I was pissin my self laughin when blues sacked rowett and appointed Zola. 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just now, hippo said:

So would you take this gamble today or at the end of the season ?

FWIW - I was pissin my self laughin when blues sacked rowett and appointed Zola. 

 

I think that could depend on where we are after January. 

If we have dropped out playoffs I say gamble. 

[Demitri_C]

43 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

But we could be achievig more Demi and the results that we know we should be getting 3 points from, can be getting 3 pts from but get 1 or 0pts from is the problem that is the hidden core to a lot of the problems.

This is causes several negative ripple affects across the team as a consequence.

We could but we could quite achieve less too Rigo its a gamble and for me not one needed at this stage. We are 5th which isn't the bets at the moment but it certainly isn't the worst.If we come through this period after Bristol City close to promotion spots then I think I feel confident going into the second half of the season as we would have played Bristol City and Boro twice and got that Brentford game out the way also. 

Then we have the likes of Cardiff, Wolves, Derby and all the top side having to come to Villa Park, they wont be looking forward to that.

Its all ifs and buts at the moment, it will be  alot clearer come the beginning of 2018 if we are still in the mix . 

 

[AvfcRigo82]

49 minutes ago, hippo said:

You won't win every game expect to win - thats never happened.

A good bench mark is 2pts per game - we are 5 pts off that. - But the question is, is that poor enough to be calling for the managers head right now (Dec 14). ? 

No it isn't - if we don't go up then yes review it (and the available options) at the end of the season. Even then I don't see who we get - for every David Wagner there's a Remi Garde. 

 

I ain't called for his head now? I have accepted he is here until May unless a sudden implode happened and we lose the next 5 games on the bounce.

You must have dog syndrome like me.