Steve Bruce

[Michael118]

18 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

But nobody is doing that.

If someone is saying "look, bruce's win ratio is better than Eric Houghton's/George Ramsey's/Ron Saunders' and therefore he is a better manager", then I agree that is ludicrous and makes no sense.

But I THINK all anyone is saying, is how can he be called "one of the most useless managers we have ever had" when he has such a high win percentage compared to our other managers.

Nobody is saying his win percentage makes him better than everyone else by direct comparison.

People are saying his win percentage shows that it's probably harsh to label him our most useless manager ever.

Pretty sure a few weeks ago people were calling him our most successful manager in history or something along those lines based on his win/loss record.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, romavillan said:

Hard to see what else Remi could have done, he was well and truly stuffed by the club. Was RDM classed as a technical coach? Very much a coach made in Britain if you ask me. 

The bold bit though, the best coaches in the world improve players. Our players are by all accounts easily good enough for this level. A lot of them have played in good modern, technical passing sides. Lansbury, Hogan, Hourihane... you can't tell me Grealish wouldn't thrive from playing in a good fast passing, footballing side. The best coaches understand a players limitations and make sure they aren't asking a player to do something impossible, and get the best out of them. I'm not sure which of our players are not able to execute Bruce's instructions, I'm fairly sure though that over a year's worth of Bruce's instructions, a full close season included, have not produced a side that looks good with the ball. 

We have looked good a few times, but incredibly rarely, it's the exception and not the rule. That shows the players can do it, the offside "goal" from Davis against Ipswich (I think) was great football for example. So I'd look more to the manager and his coaches at that point. Bruce said himself that the problems against Millwall were to do with us just giving the ball away and being sloppy and slow on the ball. Lots of people have been saying the same things for months, me included, so hopefully now he's publicly saying the same things he might do something about it?

All of them?

says who?

folk who choose to blame the manager, for every issue visible on the park.

Edited December 12, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

50 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

His win ratio means nothing if we do not get promoted, and that is my worry.

AB thats true.

but the point being made I think is that he is not scapegoat many cling to, at every drop of points.

Our team is of many parts......defensively I think we are ok.......Offensively we are poor and are in danger of undoing all the decent work so far.

To tackle the top teams with confidence, we need seasoned pro's with nous up front to give us a chance.

[bannedfromHandV]

36 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

The rest of his signings (RDM) have been woeful, so Bruce has got the best out of 2 of 7 signings? Leaving us Tshitbola, RMC, Elphick, Gollini & De Laet as undesired wage collecting flops!

You might agree that is one ratio Bruce has not been superior at!  

Come on man ffs be reasonable, if you're going to debate at least do so on some form of logical basis.

It's almost not even worth replying to but if no-one does we just have to read this type of shite again for the next few pages.

 

Tshibola - really, does it even need explaining, he was sent back early from a loan with MK Dons, but yeah sure, let's throw him into the starting line up here

RMC - serious personal issues, I don't care if the Manager is SB or f***ing Pep Guardiola, no-ones getting anything from that man until he sorts his own shit out

Elphick - injuries, lack of appearances, lack of desire, call it whatever you want but he's a liability in central defence now, he hasn't fitted in well here

Gollini - accident prone, homesick apparently, would rather sit on the bench for Atalanta than play or fight for a place here, not someone I want around the place

De Laet - has been injured for most of the time SB has been here, has been used sparingly coming off the bench which is about as much as he can hope for given the players ahead of him and his return to match fitness

 

I don't know if this was tongue in cheek, it's really hard to separate them on here these days but if one of your measures of SB doing well is getting a good return out of that collection of misfits (that he inherited) then he literally cannot win with you.

 

It's the equivalent of saying Davis is shit because he hasn't scored a goal in every single appearance.

[Michael118]

Quote

Aston Villa boss Steve Bruce closes in on a truly incredible claret and blue achievement

Oct 12, 2017

Steve Bruce has an added incentive to extend Aston Villa's winning run this weekend as a victory at Wolves would take him closer to officially becoming the most successful Villa manager of all time.

But before we get carried away with the statistics, let's remember Villa are playing in the Championship, so victories are considerably easier to come by.

Nevertheless Bruce, who celebrates a year in charge today, currently has a win ratio of 44 per cent which is better than any of Villa's previous THIRTEEN managers.

A win at Wolves would take him closer to eclipsing Graham Taylor's record of 45.77 per cent, set between 1987 and 1990 and if Villa can also see off Fulham, Bruce would proudly sit as the best performing post-war claret and blue chief.

Victory at Molineux would take his ratio to the fifth highest in Villa history behind George Ramsay (49.59), W.J Smith (48.08), Jimmy Hogan (45.97) and Taylor (45.77).

Ramsay was in charge between 1884 and 1926 when Villa won six Division One Championships and six FA Cups.

Smith and Hogan (who left in 1939) also took charge in the following years either side of Jimmy McMullan's short and largely unsuccessful reign.

And while many will remember Ron Saunders - who won the 1981 Division One title and two League Cups - and Tony Barton, the man to take charge of the European Cup and UEFA Super Cup win as the most decorated modern Villa managers, Bruce's statistics cannot be ignored.

Four wins on the bounce leaves the ex-Blues, Wigan, Sunderland and Hull City boss on 22 victories from his first 50 games in charge.

Of course he would have to maintain a steady run of results to improve his impressive win ratio but given that Villa are now mounting a serious promotion charge, there's every chance of that happening.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-boss-steve-bruce-13746883

Edited December 12, 2017 by Michael118

[Stevo985]

19 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

Pretty sure a few weeks ago people were calling him our most successful manager in history or something along those lines based on his win/loss record.

No they weren’t. People were saying he has our best win percentage. Which is true. What that shows is up for debate  

 

I doubt you’ll find anyone who was calling him our most successful manager ever. 

[TRO]

26 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

No wind up mate. The ratio bit was slight tongue in cheek there but over all I feel a better manager would have got some sort of tune out of the current bomb squad surely?  

based on what precisely

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-boss-steve-bruce-13746883

But why are they easier to come by?.....Tell Sunderland that or Hull

If you only have players for that league, surely its the same.

IF hypothetically you put a premier league team in that division.......then i would agree.

Wins are wins and if you are in that division, presumably you deserve to be.

[TRO]

29 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Come on man ffs be reasonable, if you're going to debate at least do so on some form of logical basis.

It's almost not even worth replying to but if no-one does we just have to read this type of shite again for the next few pages.

 

Tshibola - really, does it even need explaining, he was sent back early from a loan with MK Dons, but yeah sure, let's throw him into the starting line up here

RMC - serious personal issues, I don't care if the Manager is SB or f***ing Pep Guardiola, no-ones getting anything from that man until he sorts his own shit out

Elphick - injuries, lack of appearances, lack of desire, call it whatever you want but he's a liability in central defence now, he hasn't fitted in well here

Gollini - accident prone, homesick apparently, would rather sit on the bench for Atalanta than play or fight for a place here, not someone I want around the place

De Laet - has been injured for most of the time SB has been here, has been used sparingly coming off the bench which is about as much as he can hope for given the players ahead of him and his return to match fitness

 

I don't know if this was tongue in cheek, it's really hard to separate them on here these days but if one of your measures of SB doing well is getting a good return out of that collection of misfits (that he inherited) then he literally cannot win with you.

 

It's the equivalent of saying Davis is shit because he hasn't scored a goal in every single appearance.

Wolves.....seen as we are being benchmarked against them all the time.........have 34 players in their first team squad plus 19 out on loan thats 53 players.... take away 11 match day players that leaves with 42 players on the books not getting a first team game.

so,we are not the only ones.

Edited December 12, 2017 by TRO

[AvfcRigo82]

55 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Come on man ffs be reasonable, if you're going to debate at least do so on some form of logical basis.

It's almost not even worth replying to but if no-one does we just have to read this type of shite again for the next few pages.

 

Tshibola - really, does it even need explaining, he was sent back early from a loan with MK Dons, but yeah sure, let's throw him into the starting line up here

RMC - serious personal issues, I don't care if the Manager is SB or f***ing Pep Guardiola, no-ones getting anything from that man until he sorts his own shit out

Elphick - injuries, lack of appearances, lack of desire, call it whatever you want but he's a liability in central defence now, he hasn't fitted in well here

Gollini - accident prone, homesick apparently, would rather sit on the bench for Atalanta than play or fight for a place here, not someone I want around the place

De Laet - has been injured for most of the time SB has been here, has been used sparingly coming off the bench which is about as much as he can hope for given the players ahead of him and his return to match fitness

 

I don't know if this was tongue in cheek, it's really hard to separate them on here these days but if one of your measures of SB doing well is getting a good return out of that collection of misfits (that he inherited) then he literally cannot win with you.

 

It's the equivalent of saying Davis is shit because he hasn't scored a goal in every single appearance.

As explained already it was tongue in cheek to Demitri about the sarcastic ratio argument and all in good jest.

A tramps dog knows this group highlighted are finished in a Villa jersey.

I don't see the point in taking this thread seriously anymore as rightly stated by many of you it has became a mad merry go round.

[AvfcRigo82]

56 minutes ago, TRO said:

based on what precisely

Their pedigree as manager.

Take MO'N for example. Certain players would have been written off hypotheticallly, but he knew how to get the best out of what would normally be mediocore players and make them look like world beaters at times.

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, Michael118 said:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-boss-steve-bruce-13746883

What utter bollocks!

[TheStagMan]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

No they weren’t. People were saying he has our best win percentage. Which is true. What that shows is up for debate  

 

I doubt you’ll find anyone who was calling him our most successful manager ever. 

Errr, read the post above yours.... :-)

 

 

Although I will qualify that with this statement:

A win at Wolves.... ahhhhhhh hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 

[TheStagMan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

But why are they easier to come by?.....Tell Sunderland that or Hull

If you only have players for that league, surely its the same.

IF hypothetically you put a premier league team in that division.......then i would agree.

Wins are wins and if you are in that division, presumably you deserve to be.

Seriously, you can't see that it would be easier to win against Brentford or Millwall than Man U, Arsenal or Spurs?

[Stevo985]

5 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

Errr, read the post above yours.... :-)

 

 

Although I will qualify that with this statement:

A win at Wolves.... ahhhhhhh hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 

Well we were talking about posters on here.

I'll agree that the Birmingham Mail article, as with most stuff they write these days, is utter bollocks.

[Demitri_C]

2 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

No wind up mate. The ratio bit was slight tongue in cheek there but over all I feel a better manager would have got some sort of tune out of the current bomb squad surely?  

I don't think many managers can use shit and suddenly turn them into gold. For Bruce's credit he utilised the decent ones like Chester, adomah and froze the shit like Richards, elphick, McCormack Tish etc out.

you can see there is better Harmony among the players now something that there hasn't been for a while.

the bomb squad should be where they currently are; nowhere near the first team

[TRO]

1 hour ago, TheStagMan said:

Seriously, you can't see that it would be easier to win against Brentford or Millwall than Man U, Arsenal or Spurs?

thats a bit ridiculous.....because we are not in Man Utd/ Arsenal or Spurs League( The Prem)......If we was, we would have a team fit to play them, with better players equipped to take them on so wins would be easier to come by with a better team.

everything is relative.....you can only formulate a win ratio in the league you are in.....its not a statement to say they are better managers.....but it might indicate they are not shite, either.

If you are a amateur boxer and win every fight in your career, its no less of an effort that a professional winning every fight in his career.....its not comparing fighters, its comparing achievements in the company you are in.

The Pro boxer has harder opposition because HE is better, so better equipped to be in that company.

simples.

Edited December 12, 2017 by TRO

[Grasshopper]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

But why are they easier to come by?.....Tell Sunderland that or Hull 

1 The level of football gets lower as you go down the leagues

Would you agree?

1 hour ago, TRO said:

If you only have players for that league, surely its the same. 

No as this below explains it to you

1 hour ago, TRO said:

IF hypothetically you put a premier league team in that division.......then i would agree.

SJ - Loaned from a PL club

AH - spent most of his career as a PL player and Scottish international (and as shit as he ever was - but not if you believe some on here)

JC - Bought from a PL club - Euro semifinalist

JT - CL PL titles England captain

NT -  Bought from a PL club - Euro semifinalist (?) Welsh international at least

Elmo - Bought from a PL club International

Whelan - Bought from a PL club - Irish international

Jedi - Bought from a PL club - Aussie international

Adomah - Bought from a PL club

Snod - Loaned from a PL club

Onomah - Loaned from a PL club

I‘ll add for „fact over ability“ 

Gaby & Richards

There is virtually a PL team there

 

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Wins are wins and if you are in that division, presumably you deserve to be.

out of interest Would you argue or agree that

The squad who took us down deserve to be here

The players who have been brought in are deserved of a higher league (with a proper manager of course)

And you still persist in excuses and fob-offs to why we are not 

1 top of the league

2 2nd a class above the rest of this league

All in the defence of an underperforming Bruce

**shakes head in disbelief**

[Grasshopper]

 

52 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

For Bruce's credit he utilised the decent ones like Chester, adomah and froze the shit like Richards, elphick, McCormack Tish etc out.  

The one he replaced twice 

left him in the stands

was forced to bring him back due to injuries

 

[TRO]

43 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

1 The level of football gets lower as you go down the leagues

Would you agree?

No as this below explains it to you

SJ - Loaned from a PL club

AH - spent most of his career as a PL player and Scottish international (and as shit as he ever was - but not if you believe some on here)

JC - Bought from a PL club - Euro semifinalist

JT - CL PL titles England captain

NT -  Bought from a PL club - Euro semifinalist (?) Welsh international at least

Elmo - Bought from a PL club International

Whelan - Bought from a PL club - Irish international

Jedi - Bought from a PL club - Aussie international

Adomah - Bought from a PL club

Snod - Loaned from a PL club

Onomah - Loaned from a PL club

I‘ll add for „fact over ability“ 

Gaby & Richards

There is virtually a PL team there

 

out of interest Would you argue or agree that

The squad who took us down deserve to be here

The players who have been brought in are deserved of a higher league (with a proper manager of course)

And you still persist in excuses and fob-offs to why we are not 

1 top of the league

2 2nd a class above the rest of this league

All in the defence of an underperforming Bruce

**shakes head in disbelief**

I think that is a desperate attempt GH if I may say so.

All those players that you mention are playing for us in a division lower than their current club for a reason.....They are not Premier league players they are presiding in the Championship, because their clubs have released them for a reason.

• John Terry is a 37 year old player who is playing well for us but his premier league days are behind him.
• Snod was not deemed good enough for your West Ham example
• Elmo's previous team are in the lower half of our league
• Onomah is learning his trade and deemed not ready for first team duties in the Prem....If he ever gets there.
• Johnstone is 3rd choice at United hardly classed as a Premiership experienced Keeper with them.
• Adomah's previous team are below us in our league
• Jed was let go, presumably because his legs have gone for the prem and we have rarely seen him
• JC was failing to get in to the premiership team you allude to, hence his move to us.
• AH is hardly an example he has been 6 years with us.
• Richards was at the best team in the country, who failed to get anything out of him in recent times
• Gabby is the best non playing/non scoring club captain we have ever had.

I think that is a cheap attempt to rubbish a manager who has attempted to raise the equivalent of" The Mary Rose" when we was leaking goals for fun and resembling a circus.....He has instilled resillience and doggedness where non exisited and restored respectabilty  to our name  and to use that example to further your cause to vilify him, is sad mate.

You make out they have all arrived from a top 6 premier clubs first team and he has ruined them all.

shame on you.

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by TRO