Steve Bruce

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Ah right, so basically every time we don't win you want the Manager sacked and when we do win you're placated.

There's a word for that.

 

 

I'm really not sure how you came up with that. 

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

I'm really not sure how you came up with that. 

Because he highlighted all the games in which we haven't won and said, 'after each of these I wanted the manager sacked, but then that faded when we won but resurfaced after we lost again'

it's not that difficult pal, do you need some help with English language?

 

edit - I'm not deleting the above so as not to hide from it, but @Villan_of_oz I accept that the last line was unnecessary and for that single line I apologise. Anything and everything else though I stand by.

Edited December 13, 2017 by bannedfromHandV

[dn1982]

11 hours ago, KB_Villan said:

For me, the club is in a unique position this season compared to the other teams around us.

In terms of infrastructure, history etc.  This is a Premier League club.

FFP is rapidly changing that.  In order for the club to move forward again. It seems to be crucial that we get back up this season. (based on comments from the board).

Failing to get up this year would be a huge setback.  I think next season will see big changes to playing staff whichever league we're in.

Except for Wolves I don't think any other team will face dire consequences if they don't get promotion.

So with all of this in mind, and the terrible start we had leaving little room for error. Its beyond frustrating to see points being dropped in the manner that they are. 

This is what is getting people on Bruce's back with every bore draw or losing with a lack of any fight.

Everyone can accept there will be bad days but too often we just look so poor and lacking in imagination despite having some of the best championship players and some lower PL players.

Obviously its nowhere near over yet, but game after game it doesn't seem to improve.  Its partly down to the players, but what are Bruce and the coaches doing about it in training? 

I think we all understand the need for us to get up this year and that’s what justified the Bruce appointment. I didn’t want him but from afar he looked like a good appointment but he still let me down massively in how he has us play. I’ve reconciled myself that the football won’t be pretty but if the results then start to falter he isn’t under pressure. Dropping points has made the next 5 games crucial. 

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, Reivax_Villa said:

He has my backing until the end of the season.

 

I think he is here till then, unless we implode and lose the next 5 games.

[AvfcRigo82]

48 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Because he highlighted all the games in which we haven't won and said, 'after each of these I wanted the manager sacked, but then that faded when we won but resurfaced after we lost again'

it's not that difficult pal, do you need some help with English language?

It has happened with many posters H&V me included as yes Bruce has frustrated the **** out of me and many of us have made our feelings known.

We all know where we should be in the table with this current group of players and call it fickle or hysteria but everytime we see points dropped in such a manner in such a delicate season is what prompts the reactions.

Many of us the same day also have had a few pints and our feelings are heightened.

To question the man's language barrier is a little ott my friend.

[Vive_La_Villa]

13 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

Millwall was the point I gave up on us (again) , we are a terrible team full of very meh players

previously I gave up on us after Cardiff, Reading ( probably the worse performance i've ever seen ) , Bristol City  , Wolves  , Sheff Wed 

and after most of those dire performances Bruce has got the team to respond and give us some form of result , and like a love struck teenager whose girlfriend screws around I always think they've changed and this time they mean it ,and  I take them back

I think Derby ,like the teenager discovering the Bukkake party of his girlfriend , will be the point I realise it's not gonna happen and give it up for good

Bruce will probably limp us into the playoffs and anything can happen , but he just isn't doing it for me and I'd like him gone

I bet this sums up how the majority feel. Whenever it seems like we've turned a corner with performances we seem to turn to shit again. 

Im really hoping Millwall was a one off because it was pretty appalling. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Vive_La_Villa

[TRO]

10 hours ago, villakram said:

News to me. He's playing the same football he's always had his teams play, and again it's the same old rubbish about needing a few more bodies and a bit more quality. It would be nice to see him have an positive impact on our players, instead we're just getting by.

Maybe the type of clubs he has had, have not had the budgets to buy the players conducive to an expansive game.

so by deduction......if pepe was here, he would have our lot playing free flowing football.....yeah.....He would turn Gabby in to shearer.....dream on.

[Grasshopper]

11 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Because he highlighted all the games in which we haven't won and said, 'after each of these I wanted the manager sacked, but then that faded when we won but resurfaced after we lost again'...

Let me explain something.

I and many others who critisize Bruce want Villa to win/get promoted. Full stop.

We watch the games and are of course happy when we win because its good for AVFC which is what we want.

Also what we see in those winning games (draws/losses) which causes us concern is very much the reasons why we think we do lose/draw/drop pts.

We see it and comment on it. Therefore it is frustrating to see something that we (in our opinions) think is a problem for us, be the reason why we drop points.

We ALL want Villa to win promotion.

Those who support/reel of excuses for Bruce can feel free to do so.

Those who slate him stating why they do so equally.

The simple fact is. Wolves are showing us how to do it. We are staggering through a season. That stagger could result in enough ups to get us 2nd or top 6. The stagger could also mean another up-stagger could coincide with the 3 games of the playoffs. The stagger may also result in an opposite which condems us to a further season down here which may result in a number of further seasons down here.

IMHO if course, I think its more than a bit rich to patronise or condescend on someone who is of the opinion that this „flying by the seat of our pants“ is more likely to fail than succeed. ESPECIALLY when everyone to a man who has critisized Bruce for whatever has also stated „I HOPE I‘M WRONG“. Now I dont expect anyone supporting Bruce to hope they are wrong for us to fail just to equalize the admittance balance. But, what is it about the status quo that deems automatically right and the alternative automatically wrong?

[Vive_La_Villa]

Although It's ultimately about results I can forgive dropped points if the team played well.  For example after the Boro game I was frustrated but I thought we were unlucky. Against blues I think it was a well earned point considering the circumstances. 

But being played off the park at home against Brentford, Sheff Wed and Millwall can be hard to stomach. It's after those performances you start to worry. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Vive_La_Villa

[tonyh29]

2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Ah right, so basically every time we don't win you want the Manager sacked and when we do win you're placated.

There's a word for that.

 

 

there's also a word for someone that doesn't bother to read the post in front of him

losing I can accept  , it happens to everyone  , but I specifically stated dire performances  and how the team then appeared to bounce back and give me false hope 

I didn't say I wanted him sacked after every lose , I just ended by saying ultimately I'd like him gone 

 

so no internet for you

[TRO]

3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Go back and look at your own posts mate....

Yes I do have an agenda.... Villa to be successful, get out of this league and consolidate in the prem and then build from there.

Bruce is not achieving that. 100% the buck stops at his door REGARDLESS of the cause - it is into him as manager to sort out the problems.

 

I am well aware what i have wrote in the past.

Its well documented......I think its more a player problem than manager, that said they are ALL involved.i have never said they are rubbish, i have said based on performances many have not been good enough.....and i stand by that.

I think we over value some of our players on paper, based on their previous performances when they were younger.....they have been brought in ,in the main for their experience....but lack pace.

I my view we have decent defensive side to our team, which is holding together, but we are lacking in the offensive side.

The striking positions would be a major worry for any manager.....and while it exists the way it is.....i see only heartache.

draws maybe, but no wins.

These posts will be plentiful, until Jan.

Edited December 13, 2017 by TRO

[villakram]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Maybe the type of clubs he has had, have not had the budgets to buy the players conducive to an expansive game.

so by deduction......if pepe was here, he would have our lot playing free flowing football.....yeah.....He would turn Gabby in to shearer.....dream on.

You're not engaging in the discussion but simply looking to defend yourself here. After a certain period of time a team is a reflection of it's manager. There is so much empirical evidence of this that it is not really up for much debate. Time and again, we see managers go into clubs and change things around... both positive and negative. To not accept that Bruce bears a large portion of the responsibility for how we play is a weak position to take. 

Reducing this to, Bruce can't make players trap a ball etc., is simply zooming in to look at the details, where of course there will be some truth. But, it's the manager who sets the team and it's mentality, hence, at a minimum the 2nd best squad in the championship looking bang average more often than not.

Hey, we'll likely still be in with a good shot at promotion the way he has us playing, but urgh, my eyes.

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by villakram

[Grasshopper]

1 minute ago, villakram said:

You're not engaging in the discussion but simply looking to defend yourself here. After a certain period of time a team is a reflection of it's manager. There is so much empirical evidence of this that it is not really up for much debate. Time and again, we see managers go into clubs and change things around... both positive and negative. To not accept that Bruce bears a large portion of the responsibility for how we play is a weak position to take. 

Reducing this to, Bruce can't make players trap a ball etc., is simply zooming in to look at the details, where of course there will be some truth. But, it's the manager who sets the team and it's mentality, hence, at a minimum the 2nd best squad in the championship looking bang average more often than not.

spot on

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

You're not engaging in the discussion but simply looking to defend yourself here. After a certain period of time a team is a reflection of it's manager. There is so much empirical evidence of this that it is not really up for much debate. Time and again, we see managers go into clubs and change things around... both positive and negative. To not accept that Bruce bears a large portion of the responsibility for how we play is a weak position to take. 

Reducing this to, Bruce can't make players trap a ball etc., is simply zooming in to look at the details, where of course there will be some truth. But, it's the manager who sets the team and it's mentality, hence, at a minimum the 2nd best squad in the championship looking bang average more often than not.

Hey, we'll likely still be in with a good shot at promotion the way he has us playing, but urgh, my eyes.

 

In the words of GH spot on.

[TRO]

The funny thing is, if you read between the lines.....The main subject of the way we play......We all agree on.

sure, some seek solace in results more than the others, some look at performances with more interest but like the results too.

The crux of the argument is ........Who is to blame, when we play poorly or drop points?

Thats where the opinions separate......some embrace mitigation and some don't.

Edited December 13, 2017 by TRO

[sne]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

The funny thing is, if you read between the lines.....The main subject of the way we play......We all agree on.

sure, some seek solace in results more than the others, some look at performances with more interest but like the results too.

The crux of the argument is ........Who is to blame, when we play poorly or drop points?

Thats where the opinions separate.

Not even that I think.

Bet we all blame both the manager AND the players.

It's just down to what % we blame managers and players we are arguing about .

 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, sne said:

Not even that I think.

Bet we all blame both the manager AND the players.

It's just down to what % we blame managers and players we are arguing about .

 

yeah, go along with that.

or it depends if we are talking Direct blame or Indirect blame.

I have and always will accept, that the football side is ultimately the managers responsibility.....and he does.

[London Villa]

6 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

spot on

How is it spot on? When he took over a year ago we were looking at relegation from the championship and a poisonous atmosphere all round the ground.

now we're top 4, admittedly not playing great football though who does in this league and you're saying there's been no positive impact?

this thread is ridiculous. I'm refusing to look at it from now on. 

We're trying to push for promotion, how about you get behind the manager and the team and support them rather than bitch on here about failure that has yet to happen. It's embarrassing.

[Dave J]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

The funny thing is, if you read between the lines.....The main subject of the way we play......We all agree on.

sure, some seek solace in results more than the others, some look at performances with more interest but like the results too.

The crux of the argument is ........Who is to blame, when we play poorly or drop points?

Thats where the opinions separate......some embrace mitigation and some don't.

Ultimately TRO the manager has to carry the can, that’s just how it is i’m Afraid - I have said this before that in my view once a player crosses the white line his manager can do nothing about misplaced passes or ill timed challenges etc - what he is however is responsible for the make up and balance of a team along with its intent and style of play - it’s structure and so on and for me Bruce does not instill these qualities in a team - I feel we are workmanlike , uninspiring and not a huge amount of intent to really take it to the opposition and this is why I will be glad to see his tenure bought to a close sooner rather than later.

[Vive_La_Villa]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

The funny thing is, if you read between the lines.....The main subject of the way we play......We all agree on.

sure, some seek solace in results more than the others, some look at performances with more interest but like the results too.

The crux of the argument is ........Who is to blame, when we play poorly or drop points?

Thats where the opinions separate......some embrace mitigation and some don't.

Nobody is to blame. The problem is the strength of the Championship has bypassed Bruce and his years of success. The level of coaching and management is higher than it's ever been. I think it's time we moved with it before we fall further behind yet again.