Steve Bruce

[sne]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

They'd take 6th place and promotion.

They wouldn't take 3rd place but no promotion.

I'd happily take the same route up as Huddersfield did last season by finishing in the play off spots and draw all the play off games. As long as it meant that we'd be promoted in the end.

I'd also replace Bruce in the summer regardless of promotion, relegation and everything in between.

We'll need a huge rebuild next season regardless of what happens and I don't feel Bruce is the man to do it.

Edited December 12, 2017 by sne

[TheStagMan]

31 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Means absolutely nothing to anyone, other than yourself. 

Means about as much as comparing win records back to 1939 in different leagues and circumstances.

[TheStagMan]

4 minutes ago, sne said:

I'd happily take the same route up as Huddersfield did last season by finishing in the play off spots and draw all the play off games. As long as it meant that we'd be promoted in the end.

I'd also replace Bruce in the summer regardless of promotion, relegation and everything in between.

We'll need a huge rebuild next season regardless of what happens and I don't feel Bruce is the man to do it.

Spot on. 

[Dave J]

11 minutes ago, bobzy said:

They'd take 6th place and promotion.

They wouldn't take 3rd place but no promotion.

Yes of course 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I see the Bruce debates are in full force today. We're even comparing him to Lambert. 

Boy do we need the next game. 

[Demitri_C]

25 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Sorry but I am unclear what you mean ? Is top 5 or 6 good enough given the length of time he has been here and the resource available to him ? If you want my honest view absolutely not and I would ask you this in  the corridors of powers do you think they too would be satisfied ?

Bobzy just took the words out of my mouth its only deemed good enough if we go up via that route.

But your point about scraping was incorrect as that isnt true however if i tjink bruce is underachieving? Yes he is should be a lot closer to the top 3 in my eyes but he certainly isnt

1. Failing

2.  Lost the dressing room

3.  Be sacked at this stage

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Dave J said:

I think what you are forgetting here is the simple fact that football is not a big business to the average fan who turns up each week to watch their team - we do expect a level of integrity and loyalty that I figure would not ordinarily be expected in business - but please don’t think I am naive not to realise football is a big businees in the corridor of power 

I think what you are forgetting is football doesn't give a toss about the average fan who turns up each week to watch their team.

[Grasshopper]

 

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

He's doing a decent job, for sure.  I'm assuming it's because he's Portuguese and has been called "mini Mourinho" that he is revered as the second coming?

if Silva is the 2nd coming then Bruce is the last coming turning our lights off on his way out.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Funny then, if you can see all these flaws in our players that our world beater of a manager cannot see and deal with them (you know, do his job). He has had 3 transfer windows and a year with this squad and there has been very little visible progress. 

To say our players are simply not good enough is scraping the barrel in the defense of Steve Bruce to be frank. Lets say for one minute that I agree with you (i Don't) and we do not have one of the best squads in the league - we have not managed to beat any of the current top 8 teams - so we have the 9th best squad of players in the league?

The main problem here is the manager and his ability to get the best out of these players. They were all doing very well at their respective clubs, yet they come here and pretty much turn to s**t overnight. I'm sorry I just don't buy that.

Ultimately as the manager - he is responsible for the performance of the team - if the players are not good enough then he has to replace them or coach them to be better. If the players are not responding to his methods, then he has to do something about it. That's his job as manager, that's what he is paid millions of pounds for.  That's what all his vast experience should be bringing.

Making statements like the players aren't good enough, of FFP is hindering his ability to get us playing better are excuses for poor managerial abilities, nothing more. Other teams manage to produce better football with far less funds and with less skillfull players. Why is that? Could it be that their manager & coaches are doing a better job?

 

I just don't buy your simplification of just blaming the manager for every eventuality.

There are instances of good managers failing i.e Ranieri, Koeman etc.

you dismiss credible mitigation like FFP as is if its just a distraction to your agenda.

So you don't like him or rate him.....but are at the same time unable to recognise the resillience he has injected in to this team.....when many other managers were scratching their heads how to stop leaking goals at random.

No one has even intimated on here that Steve is a Pepe.....we know what clubs he has been associated with and the style he felt he had to adopt to make it work.

but are you telling me, that if we had say Austin and Defoe up front, we would be playing like this......Nah don't accept your unilateral attempt at blame.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Koeman finished 7th with Everton last season didn't he?

Everton struggled because they took punts on strikers to replace Lukaku just like we did with Benteke.

I'd also forgive a Villa manager struggling the following season if he won us the premier league I think....

The bar is being set very low for SB seemingly (to just qualify for the play offs) and he is just about achieving that atm.

I think your 3rd paragraph is selective.......you would and my arse.

[AntrimBlack]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Information correct as of 18 March 2017. Only competitive matches are counted.

Name	Nationality	From	To	Matches	Won	Drawn	Lost	Win%[4]	Honours	Notes
George Ramsay[5]	Scotland	August 1884	May 1926	1,327	658	414	255	49.59	6 FA Cups, 6 Division One championships	[6][7]
W. J. Smith[5]	England	August 1926	May 1934	364	175	67	122	48.08	-	[8]
Jimmy McMullan	Scotland	June 1934	October 1936	55	17	15	23	30.91	-	[9][10]
Jimmy Hogan	England	Summer 1936	September 1939	124	57	26	41	45.97	1 Division Two Championship	[11]
Alex Massie	Scotland	August 1945	August 1950	189	76	46	67	40.21	-	[12]
George Martin	Scotland	December 1950	August 1953	119	47	30	42	39.50	-	[13]
Eric Houghton	England	September 1953	November 1958	250	88	65	97	35.20	1 FA Cup	[14]
Joe Mercer	England	December 1958	July 1964	282	120	63	99	42.55	1 Second Division Championship, 1 Football League Cup	[15]
Dick Taylor	England	July 1964	May 1967	144	51	22	71	35.42	-	[16]
Tommy Cummings	England	July 1967	November 1968	62	18	14	30	29.03	-	[17]
Tommy Docherty	Scotland	December 1968	January 1970	46	13	16	17	28.26	-	[18]
Vic Crowe	Wales	January 1970	May 1974	199	88	55	56	44.22	1 Third Division Championship	[19]
Ron Saunders	England	June 1974	February 1982	353	157	98	98	44.48	2 Football League Cups, 1 Division One championship. '[20]	[21]
Tony Barton	England	February 1982	June 1984	130	58	24	48	44.62	1 European Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup	[22]
Graham Turner	England	July 1984	September 1986	105	33	29	43	31.43	-	[23]
Billy McNeill	Scotland	September 1986	May 1987	41	9	15	17	21.95	-	[24]
Graham Taylor	England	May 1987	July 1990	142	65	35	42	45.77	-	[25]
Jozef Vengloš	Czechoslovakia	July 1990	May 1991	49	16	15	18	32.65	-	[26]
Ron Atkinson	England	July 1991	November 1994	178	77	45	56	43.26	1 Football League Cup	[27]
Brian Little	England	November 1994	February 1998	164	68	45	51	41.46	1 Football League Cup,[20]	[28]
John Gregory	England	February 1998	January 2002	190	82	52	56	43.16	1 UEFA Intertoto Cup	[29]
Graham Taylor	England	February 2002	May 2003	60	19	14	27	31.67	-	[25]
David O'Leary	Ireland	May 2003	July 2006	131	47	35	49	35.88	-	[30]
Martin O'Neill	Northern Ireland	August 2006	August 2010	190	80	60	50	42.11	-	[31]
Gérard Houllier	France	September 2010	June 2011	36	14	8	14	38.89	-	[32]
Alex McLeish	Scotland	June 2011	May 2012	42	9	17	16	21.43	-	[33]
Paul Lambert	Scotland	June 2012	February 2015	115	34	26	55	29.57	-	[34]
Tim Sherwood	England	February 2015	October 2015	28	10	2	16	35.71	-	[35]
Rémi Garde	France	November 2015	March 2016	23	3	7	13	13.04	-	[36]
Roberto Di Matteo	Italy	June 2016	October 2016	12	1	7	4	8.33	-	[37]
Steve Bruce	England	October 2016	Present	59	30	13	16	50.85	-	[38

Bruces picture isnt there because as the facts show above his win ration is higher than most managers in our history

better than every single person i highlighted by a country mile

His win ratio means nothing if we do not get promoted, and that is my worry.

[sne]

1 minute ago, AntrimBlack said:

His win ratio means nothing if we do not get promoted, and that is my worry.

This particular one also seem to be inaccurate as the one on Transfermarkt and his Wiki show it as 45%

Which is still pretty good mind.

[AvfcRigo82]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

At the end of the day I feel Bruce has done pretty well on his transfer budget, he also has got the bets out of RDMs players in adomah and chester who were not great under RDM. 

The rest of his signings (RDM) have been woeful, so Bruce has got the best out of 2 of 7 signings? Leaving us Tshitbola, RMC, Elphick, Gollini & De Laet as undesired wage collecting flops!

You might agree that is one ratio Bruce has not been superior at!  

[AntrimBlack]

8 minutes ago, sne said:

This particular one also seem to be inaccurate as the one on Transfermarkt and his Wiki show it as 45%

Which is still pretty good mind.

Like I said - means nothing to me if we do not get promoted.

[sne]

1 minute ago, AntrimBlack said:

Like I said - means nothing to me if we do not get promoted.

Certainly doesn't.

All about promotion.

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Bobzy just took the words out of my mouth its only deemed good enough if we go up via that route.

But your point about scraping was incorrect as that isnt true however if i tjink bruce is underachieving? Yes he is should be a lot closer to the top 3 in my eyes but he certainly isnt

1. Failing

2.  Lost the dressing room

3.  Be sacked at this stage

Well that’s your view and you are perfectly entitled to this - however after 12 months + in charge and only recently managing to breakthrough into the top six whilst not looking over convincing might just qualify as scapping  by in some people’s eyes - I wouldn’t wonder ?

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, TheStagMan said:

Means about as much as comparing win records back to 1939 in different leagues and circumstances.

But nobody is doing that.

If someone is saying "look, bruce's win ratio is better than Eric Houghton's/George Ramsey's/Ron Saunders' and therefore he is a better manager", then I agree that is ludicrous and makes no sense.

But I THINK all anyone is saying, is how can he be called "one of the most useless managers we have ever had" when he has such a high win percentage compared to our other managers.

Nobody is saying his win percentage makes him better than everyone else by direct comparison.

People are saying his win percentage shows that it's probably harsh to label him our most useless manager ever.

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

The rest of his signings (RDM) have been woeful, so Bruce has got the best out of 2 of 7 signings? Leaving us Tshitbola, RMC, Elphick, Gollini & De Laet as undesired wage collecting flops!

You might agree that is one ratio Bruce has not been superior at!  

A wise man once said if looks like shit, and spunds like shit then its probably shit. Thats the best way to describe that group of players (maybe not de laet as havent seen enough of him) why would bruce use them if they are crap??

Im starting tp think your winding me up rigo 

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I think what you are forgetting is football doesn't give a toss about the average fan who turns up each week to watch their team.

Oh no trust me I haven’t - i’ve been here a long time and have witnessed many changes in the game and I understand what you mean when you say this - but for me the romance is still there albeit flowing in one direction 

[AvfcRigo82]

14 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

A wise man once said if looks like shit, and spunds like shit then its probably shit. Thats the best way to describe that group of players (maybe not de laet as havent seen enough of him) why would bruce use them if they are crap??

Im starting tp think your winding me up rigo 

No wind up mate. The ratio bit was slight tongue in cheek there but over all I feel a better manager would have got some sort of tune out of the current bomb squad surely?