striker Posted August 2, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted August 2, 2018 44 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I do think though if bruce fails at the third attempt this will be his last season here. That depends on whether the new owners have the same type of pockets as Xia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 54 minutes ago, Dave J said: I've never heard a regular say a bad word about their manager - why would they ? I take no notice whatsoever when players talk about managers in the media - it's just no guage of reality imo I imagine you'd be exactly the same if anyone criticised Bruce in the media He's done a great job bonding the squad and you can tell this on the pitch as well as off it. Master tactician he isn't, but he seems to be pretty adept at man management. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 50 minutes ago, bobzy said: I imagine you'd be exactly the same if anyone criticised Bruce in the media He's done a great job bonding the squad and you can tell this on the pitch as well as off it. Master tactician he isn't, but he seems to be pretty adept at man management. Ross McCormack says hi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 2, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Ross McCormack says hi. I think you've inadvertently proved his point. McCormack is/was, by all accounts, not the greatest influence off the pitch. He's realised this and got him out. Not keeping bad eggs around just because we pay them is part of the reason the bond appears to be so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I think you've inadvertently proved his point. McCormack is/was, by all accounts, not the greatest influence off the pitch. He's realised this and got him out. Not keeping bad eggs around just because we pay them is part of the reason the bond appears to be so good. Fair point Stevo and I do recognise that man management is definitely one of Steve Bruce’s strengths. However I feel he could have handled that situation without going public and making McCormack a virtually worthless asset. Sure we paid over the odds for him, but I’m sure that making him toxic was a mistake financially. Come January, someone desperate for goals would have possibly stumped up a few million and got him off the books. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Fair point Stevo and I do recognise that man management is definitely one of Steve Bruce’s strengths. However I feel he could have handled that situation without going public and making McCormack a virtually worthless asset. Sure we paid over the odds for him, but I’m sure that making him toxic was a mistake financially. Come January, someone desperate for goals would have possibly stumped up a few million and got him off the books. We shipped him off to Melbourne City where he scored goals - you’re saying this is worse than having a bad influence sticking around the squad and not contributing anything in the hope someone might have offered something in January? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Ok. I wasn't just talking about what players say in the media though. That's fair enough - but out of interest what did you mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 hours ago, bobzy said: We shipped him off to Melbourne City where he scored goals - you’re saying this is worse than having a bad influence sticking around the squad and not contributing anything in the hope someone might have offered something in January? lol. No you make a valid point in getting him out of the way if he was a bad influence. But my point is, if this had been done behind closed doors we may have found it easier to get rid of him permanently and for some money. He’s not the first problem player ever and most of them are dealt with quietly behind closed doors. For example Ross McCormack when we bought him for £12m! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted August 2, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Dave J said: That's fair enough - but out of interest what did you mean ? Everything. The way the players speak, the way they act towards the manager, the way they play, the way they celebrate. It's obvious that last season we had a very good team spirit all over the pitch. That doesn't happen if the players aren't behind the manager. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Everything. The way the players speak, the way they act towards the manager, the way they play, the way they celebrate. It's obvious that last season we had a very good team spirit all over the pitch. That doesn't happen if the players aren't behind the manager. It's totally subjective Stevo - what you describe is only really players reacting to scoring/winning goals/games which they do regardless imo - I'm far from saying we don't have a good team spirit let's be honest we were winning games ( not enough mind ) - I just don't buy what you say - I'll wager there is half a dozen players that would not have cared one jot if Bruce moved on. maybe your a regular at BMH ? So you might have more than a passing insight into team spirit than most - but I don't get it from the reasons stated - they are superficial - and wouldn't necessarily tell the whole story imo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 2, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 2, 2018 56 minutes ago, Dave J said: It's totally subjective Stevo - what you describe is only really players reacting to scoring/winning goals/games which they do regardless imo - I'm far from saying we don't have a good team spirit let's be honest we were winning games ( not enough mind ) - I just don't buy what you say - I'll wager there is half a dozen players that would not have cared one jot if Bruce moved on. maybe your a regular at BMH ? So you might have more than a passing insight into team spirit than most - but I don't get it from the reasons stated - they are superficial - and wouldn't necessarily tell the whole story imo Whatever you say, Dave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I don't know that it's superficial @Dave J I think @Stevo985 is definitely correct in presuming team morale was high, for me, this comes down to having football staff with a professional attitude, though I see where you are coming from in saying it's subjective and we don't have the scope to know the true perspectives of the people at Villa in regards to Bruce. However subjective, I would still say that it was fairly obvious we had a team spirit that was behind our manager and committed to the approach, it was the limitations of that approach that was in part a cause for us not winning more games. Whether players got frustrated at times or could care less if Bruce was moved on is irrelevant in my view. One teammate plays a bad pass or misses a chance and the inclination for some is to be frustrated, this doesn't necessarily mean that they abandon a 'can do' attitude for the remainder of the game and the season at large. For the majority of the season we showed a spirit of togetherness, and even when we didn't, there was no drama or fragment in attitude apparent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 10 hours ago, Dave J said: It's totally subjective Stevo And as such it obviously jars with the usual thorough, impartial, evidence-based analysis that is the norm in this thread. , 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 11 hours ago, Dave J said: It's totally subjective Stevo - what you describe is only really players reacting to scoring/winning goals/games which they do regardless imo - I'm far from saying we don't have a good team spirit let's be honest we were winning games ( not enough mind ) - I just don't buy what you say - I'll wager there is half a dozen players that would not have cared one jot if Bruce moved on. maybe your a regular at BMH ? So you might have more than a passing insight into team spirit than most - but I don't get it from the reasons stated - they are superficial - and wouldn't necessarily tell the whole story imo In which case, everything is superficial. And since you’re not down at BMH watching training and seeing how Bruce sets up his team, I suggest you shift the entirety of the blame that you put on Bruce to the players. After all, they’re the ones you see on the pitch, lacking their team spirit and not winning enough matches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 3, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, A'Villan said: I don't know that it's superficial @Dave J I think @Stevo985 is definitely correct in presuming team morale was high, for me, this comes down to having football staff with a professional attitude, though I see where you are coming from in saying it's subjective and we don't have the scope to know the true perspectives of the people at Villa in regards to Bruce. However subjective, I would still say that it was fairly obvious we had a team spirit that was behind our manager and committed to the approach, it was the limitations of that approach that was in part a cause for us not winning more games. Whether players got frustrated at times or could care less if Bruce was moved on is irrelevant in my view. One teammate plays a bad pass or misses a chance and the inclination for some is to be frustrated, this doesn't necessarily mean that they abandon a 'can do' attitude for the remainder of the game and the season at large. For the majority of the season we showed a spirit of togetherness, and even when we didn't, there was no drama or fragment in attitude apparent. I think man management and the maintenance of a team spirit is one of the most obvious attributes Bruce has a manager. I've never seen anyone dispute this before. You can tell when a manager has lost the dressing room, and there has never been any suggestion of this at Villa. Quite the opposite, everything points towards a united squad that support the manager. For all bruce's faults, this isn't one of them. Unfortunately some posters can never bring themselves to compliment Bruce about anything. Everything has to be a negative. It makes a reasonable debate very hard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 3, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 3, 2018 9 hours ago, VILLAMARV said: I always knew Dave liked chocolate popsicles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, bobzy said: In which case, everything is superficial. And since you’re not down at BMH watching training and seeing how Bruce sets up his team, I suggest you shift the entirety of the blame that you put on Bruce to the players. After all, they’re the ones you see on the pitch, lacking their team spirit and not winning enough matches. So you think we won enough games then? Ok fair enough I don't. you and others are completely missing my point - I never once said anything about team spirit - other than not agreeing with how Stevo - evaluated this - which I say again is superficial and subjective nothing more or less and again I repeat I think you will find at least half a dozen players who would not mind if Bruce had left. in fairness you can probably say this about a lot of teams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dave J said: So you think we won enough games then? Ok fair enough I don't. you and others are completely missing my point - I never once said anything about team spirit - other than not agreeing with how Stevo - evaluated this - which I say again is superficial and subjective nothing more or less and again I repeat I think you will find at least half a dozen players who would not mind if Bruce had left. in fairness you can probably say this about a lot of teams. As was proven last season, team spirit, which, I agree, seemed pretty good, will only get you so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted August 3, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted August 3, 2018 14 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: No you make a valid point in getting him out of the way if he was a bad influence. But my point is, if this had been done behind closed doors we may have found it easier to get rid of him permanently and for some money. He’s not the first problem player ever and most of them are dealt with quietly behind closed doors. For example Ross McCormack when we bought him for £12m! perhaps he thought it would give him a kick up the backside? the embarrassment might spur him on to prove everyone wrong? we all know he had/has goals in him so perhaps he wanted to see if he could become the player we know he can be rather than giving up on him straight away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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