TRO Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said: It’s exactly like those of us called it months ago said. The squad is good enough to win the league but Bruce holds us back with his failings. The problem is we win a couple because there’s genuine crap in this league and you won’t lost many on the spin, two fluke results against Bristol & Wolves have papered over a woeful record against the better sides. The knock out blow has been dealt to automatic promotion now, its playoffs where we will get stuffed by Fulham because it’s been painfully obvious since February last season that Bruce can’t read a game and react accordingly. I described it as watching a car crash in slow motion and that’s what is happening now. With our run since Christmas it looked like I’d got him wrong and I hoped I was wrong but I haven’t I’d sack him if we lose next week get a tactician in for the playoffs. Anybody who wants him here if we don’t get promoted needs their head examined, it’s akin to Rangers finishing third on the scale of footballing underachievement. i think you discredit him with the same dubious comments, that can be used to support him. Last 2 games....The results have departed us, we have been out fought....why? Any number of reasons. I have felt for some time there are some excellent players in our squad for this league and some i Haven't been so sure about.....but in consistency can play games with us too. The last 2 games have worried me, not because we have lost, but how low in terms of performance we have been able to go. I don't know what has caused it.....I can speculate with the best, but what good is that. Steve Bruce and his coaches need to dig deep in to all their experience and muster a robust response and show the aggression that this run in requires. We can't change whats happened......but we can show the fight to banish these demons of the last 2 games and get back on track. nothing in this life is easy......its not meant to be. you have to fight for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Dave J said: He has a genuine point TRO - are you totally convinced we would beat Fulham in a play off final ? I'm not and whether you then like it or not - his time here could be considered a waste of - given his remit was to get promotion imo in either of his two seasons here Rubbish.....are you trying to tell me all the work during his time has been a waste.....absolute garbage. was all Vic Crowes work a waste of time because he wasn't Ron Saunders. sorry Dave, i do see some of your points, but not this. Yes, we are capable of beating Fulham in the play offs, if we stay there. We have just found a level of performance I didn't think we had in us an On that basis we will struggle to win another game. but we all know, we are capable of beating anyone......I don't know which one the real Villa is. Steve Bruce needs to find out quickly, whats happening. I don't want to be discussing the managers job after every reversal.....He was clearly not expecting that response today. How do you feel about the fancied one to replace him in some quarters, taking off his 2 most inflential players with 20 odd minutes to go and failing to win the game. Its tedious to keep blaming the manager after every reversal, even if he does have issues to answer to. He is here until the end of the season and so are the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 If we fail to go up then Bruce will have been a total waste of time and an opportunity missed, if we don't go up this season, with the enormous drop in income next season (significantly reduced parachute payments) and FFP I think we will end up being down here for many years to come. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I agree that Bruce and this roster are here till the end of the season. I hope like **** they surprise me and gain promotion. But that does not mean I cannot or will not level deserved criticism at him and them. It might be one of the things that bothers me most about Bruce. Criticism is consistently treated as overly harsh, or hysterical, or unwarranted. I’ve not personally experienced a manager with as much Teflon. I don’t get it. Criticism of players is much more acceptable, apparently. But Teflon Steve is defended as if he’s untouchable. Oh well, i’ve Been scratching my head over that for over a year. I don’t expect understanding at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Dr_Pangloss said: If we fail to go up then Bruce will have been a total waste of time and an opportunity missed, if we don't go up this season, with the enormous drop in income next season (significantly reduced parachute payments) and FFP I think we will end up being down here for many years to come. For all the frustration this evening..... i don't subscribe to that. all the improvenment has been worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: I agree that Bruce and this roster are here till the end of the season. I hope like **** they surprise me and gain promotion. But that does not mean I cannot or will not level deserved criticism at him and them. It might be one of the things that bothers me most about Bruce. Criticism is consistently treated as overly harsh, or hysterical, or unwarranted. I’ve not personally experienced a manager with as much Teflon. I don’t get it. Criticism of players is much more acceptable, apparently. But Teflon Steve is defended as if he’s untouchable. Oh well, i’ve Been scratching my head over that for over a year. I don’t expect understanding at this point. One bunch play.....one manages. A managers responsibility is work over a much broader period of time. He is responsible for match day.....but he doesn't play.....there are things he has control over and some things he doesn't. Steve McLaren and Keith Andrews did their match review and highlighted the Issues they thought were our weaknesses.......They did not say Steve Bruce is at fault, they Said Steve will be disappointed in some of those things......like the defending for the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, TRO said: For all the frustration this evening..... i don't subscribe to that. all the improvenment has been worth it. How has it been worth it? After two seasons we are going to miss out on automatic promotion for a second time and have a 1 in 4 chance in a playoff lottery. With the money that the club has spent we should be doing a lot better than we currently are. Tactically Bruce hasn't been good enough again this season, to achieve promotion in this league you need to win the majority of your games, we have done this in spurts but then end it with a succession of poor results due to his stubbornness to play players in the correct positions or play attacking, possession based football football. I would think most managers in this league, with the funds and players that Bruce has had at their disposal would have achieved as much if not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, TRO said: One bunch play.....one manages. A managers responsibility is work over a much broader period of time. He is responsible for match day.....but he doesn't play.....there are things he has control over and some things he doesn't. Steve McLaren and Keith Andrews did their match review and highlighted the Issues they thought were our weaknesses.......They did not say Steve Bruce is at fault, they Said Steve will be disappointed in some of those things......like the defending for the goal. Sorry, but he manages the bunch that plays. If your view is correct, a manager is virtually never to blame. He didn’t miss a mark, he didn’t misplace a shot. We should have never fired a manager, ever. Which I think would mean MacLeish would still be here. Lambert never failed, either It’s always that rotten bunch of players (he selected, signed, trained, played,) But you and I have been round that Bush multiple times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honest_bertie Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Gave him credit after Wolves and getting us up to top 3/4, felt like we had some sort of plan or way of playing, felt like we were geting an identity in place. Unfortuantly though the last two games have shown his limitations again. Did that new coach Agnew take a couple of weeks off? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: Sorry, but he manages the bunch that plays. If your view is correct, a manager is virtually never to blame. He didn’t miss a mark, he didn’t misplace a shot. We should have never fired a manager, ever. Which I think would mean MacLeish would still be here. Lambert never failed, either It’s always that rotten bunch of players (he selected, signed, trained, played,) But you and I have been round that Bush multiple times Smithy......you are missing my point. Of course he has to shoulder blame, but its in the context we are debating. I don't think anything his coaches or him would do much different in the space of three days to get the disparity of performances.....thats the players. Its over a period of time that managers get judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, TRO said: One bunch play.....one manages. A managers responsibility is work over a much broader period of time. He is responsible for match day.....but he doesn't play.....there are things he has control over and some things he doesn't. Steve McLaren and Keith Andrews did their match review and highlighted the Issues they thought were our weaknesses.......They did not say Steve Bruce is at fault, they Said Steve will be disappointed in some of those things......like the defending for the goal. Kieth Andrews said we rely on individuals as we have no game plan ..hardly backing Bruce that Edited March 17, 2018 by Nabby 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 49 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: I agree that Bruce and this roster are here till the end of the season. I hope like **** they surprise me and gain promotion. But that does not mean I cannot or will not level deserved criticism at him and them. It might be one of the things that bothers me most about Bruce. Criticism is consistently treated as overly harsh, or hysterical, or unwarranted. I’ve not personally experienced a manager with as much Teflon. I don’t get it. Criticism of players is much more acceptable, apparently. But Teflon Steve is defended as if he’s untouchable. Oh well, i’ve Been scratching my head over that for over a year. I don’t expect understanding at this point. It's quite simple actually, he's been promoted more times than anyone else from this division. Apparently that buys you get out of jail card forever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 52 minutes ago, TRO said: For all the frustration this evening..... i don't subscribe to that. all the improvenment has been worth it. You honestly believe 'all the improvement' wouldn't have been possible with anyone else in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Nabby said: Kieth Andrews said we rely on individuals as we have no game plan ..hardly backing Bruce that Half of this message board have been saying the same for over a year now. But if course, we're all just hysterical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Shocking again tonight. Our players were throwing themselves to the ground and acting like they just had their leg broken every chance possible as all we are under Bruce is a set piece team, I think it would be better if the players were coached to out play the opposition in open play and control games. Why did he bring on 3 strikers which meant Grealish was playing in his own half for the last 20 minutes, why not push Grealish further up rather than further back as hes the player we want to be getting on the ball in and around the opposition box. Clueless again tonight by Bruce... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nabby said: Kieth Andrews said we rely on individuals as we have no game plan ..hardly back Bruce that It depends on the interpretation. was there a game plan against Wolves? I think there is a gameplan......whether players stick to it or execute it successfully is another debate....thats what I think Keith Andrews was intimating. Personally i don't believe any professional football manager does not have a Gameplan, even Sunderland have. The question is......is it executed successfully that is down to the players doing their individual jobs to form a team.....the manager then changes it if its not being adhered to.......if very few are winning their individual duels ( intimated bt Steve McLaren) then it becomes tricky....i guess thats when strange things are done like 4 strikers...throwing caution to the wind. Edited March 18, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Bruce "we wont give up" Someone needs to tell the players that as they seem to have given up this week. A total and utter shit show. The wolves result means absolutely nothing now after these two pathetic performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Nabby said: Kieth Andrews said we rely on individuals as we have no game plan ..hardly backing Bruce that Then Keith Andrews is talking out of his arse. It is very much team work and all giving 100% that got us into such a strong position. There is no doubt this is a massive opportunity missed the last two games and barring winning every game from now on in has pretty much put paid to our automatic promotion hopes. Like the manager it is hard to know what to say. How we can go from performing as we did against Wolves just last week to performing as we have in the last two games is a mystery but it shouldn't be to the manager though. Ultimately he is responsible for ensuring the players go into the games with the right attitude and play at an intensity to ensure we aren't out worked which will see our superior ability win through. In the last two games he has failed in that regard. We are where we are though. My big hope now is that if as seems highly likely it is to be the play offs that big games, in front of full houses with the pressure on will again bring out the best in us as it did against Wolves. If it doesn't then we really will have wasted a lot of hard work this season. For now though with so much to play for I am not going to contemplate that. Edited March 17, 2018 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxahunter Posted March 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, TRO said: One bunch play.....one manages. A managers responsibility is work over a much broader period of time. He is responsible for match day.....but he doesn't play.....there are things he has control over and some things he doesn't. Steve McLaren and Keith Andrews did their match review and highlighted the Issues they thought were our weaknesses.......They did not say Steve Bruce is at fault, they Said Steve will be disappointed in some of those things......like the defending for the goal. No thats true, but he is responsible for making the changes if a team doesnt perform during the games and he is constantly making the wrong decisions. He is responsible for setting the team up for a start and responsible for having them motivated from the beginning and if it doesn’t help, during halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: We are where we are though. My big hope now is that if as seems highly likely it is to be the play offs that big games, in front of full houses with the pressure on will again bring out the best in us as it did against Wolves. If we don't then we really will have wasted a lot of hard work this season. For now though with so much to play for I am not going to contemplate that. The win over Wolves was extraordinary alright, but considering how we've performed as a whole this season against all of the promotion contenders, how confident are you we'll be able to replicate that one-off performance, when push comes to shove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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