Popular Post DCJonah Posted March 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2017 Even with the three wins we still don't look like a team that will win enough games to get promoted. Especially against the good teams in the league. Can't really rant and rave about wanting him gone after 9 points from 4 games and a good away performance in the only loss, but I just don't see him doing enough to get us promoted. And if we don't do it next year I think we will be stuck here for awhile. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 3 hours ago, bobzy said: 1. The "goalkeeping situation" was resolved, to an extent - we got rid of Gollini and brought in Johnstone. Our defensive stats are on a par with Huddersfield after they scored last night. It's not the problem. Further, central midfield has been strengthened? We've signed Lansbury and Hourihane as central midfielders and Bjarnason can also play there if needed. 2. Gestede, Ayew and McCormack have left. One of those three was playing as a striker for us, one played out wide and the other seemed to do a mix of the two. It would have been absolutely utterly bonkers to get rid of those three and bring in three attacking options again when we already have Kodjia, Agbonlahor, Grealish, Adomah, Kozak and to an extent Green, Hepburn-Murphy and Davis on the books. You can debate the likelihood of the senior players having an impact, sure, but they're still contracted by us and still cost money. Bringing in Hogan as a replacement for, basically, one striker is absolutely fine. 3. No-one supports Steve Bruce - we're all Aston Villa fans. I also don't remember anyone saying "let's wait and see where Bruce and Wagner finish at the end of the season", but it may well be true. Managers need time, though. Look at Wagner last season... 4. You need stability with it. Spending money is fine, and massively raises expectations, but you need a team to be settled. Judging teams based on money spent is stupid. It gives you an advantage when used correctly, but by no means guarantees instant success. 1. Johnstone is no better and perhaps worse than Gollini so no we've not strengthened. I think GK is a problem and we have probably lost 10-12 points this season due to poor goalkeeping. Defensive stats say something about the whole teams defending not just the quality of your GK. Lansbury and Hourihane are not effective holding or defensive midfielders - we are far weaker in that area now and are totally reliant on Jedinaks form and fitness 2. So in my argument only one of the three who left is a striker and in your argument we have eight strikers on the books? Seems fair! Also I didnt say that we should have signed three strikers, I said that Bruces transfer dealings have left us short of options and firepower. Excluding Kodija the other seven players you name have six goals between them and two I would wager will never score another Villa goal in their careers. Lack of options up front is a key problem area for us 3. Some people support Bruce's continuing managership and other do not. At the time of Bruces appointment there were more than a few predicting a steady march up the division for us and a decline for Wagner. Its all due to circumstances isnt it - I would have stuck with Garde for longer for example (I'm sure very many would disagree and I won't bother arguing his case) 4. Money needs to be spent well and I think we could have spent better. Money doesnt buy success is a truism but its better to have money then not. My respect for Wagners abilities are due to him achieving success without resources (and incidentally his finishing 19th had more to do with the side he inherieted and the work needed than with any lack of ability) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: I think you're missing his point. Wagner had a year at Huddersfield up until the point we appointed Bruce. If he was at Villa, why would he do even better? Are you completely ignoring the year he had at Huddersfield and the stability at the club? If he joined Villa, there's nothing to say he would do better, or worse than Bruce is saying. It's completely guesswork. Instead of going for a manager that had just finished 19th, we went for one that got promoted. If Wagner had been appointed in the same circumstances and had produced the same poor results I would be much more willing to give him time than I am with Bruce. If that sounds crazy, its not. I like Wagners philosophy and approach and think that given time and patience he could produce something far better than Bruce could with the same time and resources. I hate Bruce's dull and fearful approach and want someone who can produce exciting progressive football and build something Wagner could well take Huddersfield up this season with a squad assembled for a fraction of ours - if he doesnt we should break the bank to get him in in the summer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, VillaCas said: If Wagner had been appointed in the same circumstances and had produced the same poor results I would be much more willing to give him time than I am with Bruce. If that sounds crazy, its not. I like Wagners philosophy and approach and think that given time and patience he could produce something far better than Bruce could with the same time and resources. I hate Bruce's dull and fearful approach and want someone who can produce exciting progressive football and build something Wagner could well take Huddersfield up this season with a squad assembled for a fraction of ours - if he doesnt we should break the bank to get him in in the summer. I agree. Bruce has been in management for about 20 years and in all that time he has never set the world alight and has gone from one dross football club to another playing turgid football for the most part. No top team has ever scouted him nor never will. Edited March 8, 2017 by pacbuddies 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2017 36 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Except I've taken what Wagner has achieved this season and imagined what he could have achieved given the resources that we could offer I would argue that your prediction of Bruce is based on far less recent history You are a fan of Bruce, fair enough. Im not a fan and believe that we will progress further and faster with a more progressive manager at the helm Except Wagner achieved absolutely **** all in the same time frame as Bruce. It was only after a couple of transfer windows and a pre season that Huddersfield started to perform. So comparing what Wagner has achieved THIS season to what Bruce has achieved THIS season doesn't really work. If you compare how Bruce performs NEXT season with how Wagner has performed THIS season, then that is a fairer comparison. My prediction of Bruce wasn't a real one. But if it was, it would be based on his history of promotion from this league, as recently as last season. So it's hardly ancient history is it? FWIW, I'm not a "fan" of Bruce. I'm still totally on the fence about him and don't know if he's the right guy for next season. However, his recent results, imo, have bought him until the end of the season at which point we'll (and more importantly the club will) be able to make a much more confident decision on his future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 minute ago, pacbuddies said: I agree. Bruce has been in management for about 20 years and in all that time he has never set the world alight and has gone from one dross football club to another playing turgid football for the most part. No top team has touted him and never will. Who cares? We don't need a manager who will impress a top team and get poached by them. We need a manager to get us out of the championship. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Just now, Stevo985 said: Who cares? We don't need a manager who will impress a top team and get poached by them. We need a manager to get us out of the championship. Glad you agree. Go find one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2017 Just now, pacbuddies said: Glad you agree. Go find one! We've got one... probably 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 minute ago, pacbuddies said: Glad you agree. Go find one! I wasn't aware Stevo worked for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JE- Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Anyone who has a clue about football knows that wagner is head and shoulders above Bruce in every single way from tactics to innovation to building sides to playing proper modern day football Dortmund are likely to want him at some point do you think Dortmund will want Bruce LOL just the mere thought of that is bloody hilarious Bruce is a soul destroyer and will lose fans going to the ground if this continues... Bruce won't get us up next season he's out his depth.. Even if he somehow did with his dire football I'd want him out as soon as the promotion is confirmed the premiership is no place for the dinasour that is Bruce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 44 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: I wasn't aware Stevo worked for the club. You wasn't? You need to get out more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, JE- said: Anyone who has a clue about football knows that wagner is head and shoulders above Bruce in every single way from tactics to innovation to building sides to playing proper modern day football Dortmund are likely to want him at some point do you think Dortmund will want Bruce LOL just the mere thought of that is bloody hilarious Bruce is a soul destroyer and will lose fans going to the ground if this continues... Bruce won't get us up next season he's out his depth.. Even if he somehow did with his dire football I'd want him out as soon as the promotion is confirmed the premiership is no place for the dinasour that is Bruce What do you think of Steve Bruce? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 23 minutes ago, JE- said: Anyone who has a clue about football knows that wagner is head and shoulders above Bruce in every single way from tactics to innovation to building sides to playing proper modern day football Dortmund are likely to want him at some point do you think Dortmund will want Bruce LOL just the mere thought of that is bloody hilarious Bruce is a soul destroyer and will lose fans going to the ground if this continues... Bruce won't get us up next season he's out his depth.. Even if he somehow did with his dire football I'd want him out as soon as the promotion is confirmed the premiership is no place for the dinasour that is Bruce 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, JE- said: Anyone who has a clue about football knows that wagner is head and shoulders above Bruce in every single way from tactics to innovation to building sides to playing proper modern day football Dortmund are likely to want him at some point do you think Dortmund will want Bruce LOL just the mere thought of that is bloody hilarious Bruce is a soul destroyer and will lose fans going to the ground if this continues... Bruce won't get us up next season he's out his depth.. Even if he somehow did with his dire football I'd want him out as soon as the promotion is confirmed the premiership is no place for the dinasour that is Bruce respect I'm with you 100% Good to know there's someone else out there who nails his colours to the mast so convinced and consequential. I'm sure as time goes by and the performances & results will show that Bruce is not our man. My wish is that DrT, Wyness & Round see it early enough and appoint someone who will get us up next year. Edited March 8, 2017 by Grasshopper 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Page 4-4-2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JE- Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: respect I'm with you 100% Good to know there's someone else out there who nails his colours to the mast so convinced and consequential. I'm sure as time goes by and the performances & results will show that Bruce is not our man. My wish is that DrT, Wyness & Round see it early enough and appoint someone who will get us up next year. Yes mate I do... It's not about right or wrong Id love nothing more than promotion regardless of who is in charge my point is I can't see Bruce doing it.. His football was more effective in the past it's getting outdated by each season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Sooooo, is this thread just going round in circles or has anything new, different or insightful been written on the topic of Bruce for the last ~250 pages? No! Okay, thanks - bye xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 3 hours ago, JE- said: Anyone who has a clue about football knows that wagner is head and shoulders above Bruce in every single way from tactics to innovation to building sides to playing proper modern day football Dortmund are likely to want him at some point do you think Dortmund will want Bruce LOL just the mere thought of that is bloody hilarious Bruce is a soul destroyer and will lose fans going to the ground if this continues What exactly had Wagner achieved? When has he build sides? He's had 1.5 years as a manager. Thats purely conjecture that Dortmund will have him as manager. If fans stop going then that's their choice, but I think that's bollucks. If the team are winning regularly, which I think we will next season then fans will attend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 18 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: What exactly had Wagner achieved? When has he build sides? He's had 1.5 years as a manager. He's achieved nothing so far. But this is the modern football fan. No respect, no patience. A manager's been good for a few months, give him the Dortmund job. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JE- Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: He's achieved nothing so far. But this is the modern football fan. No respect, no patience. A manager's been good for a few months, give him the Dortmund job. Well Bruce has achieved fck all of any value to any club he's been at.. In fact he leaves them in a bigger mess than when he went in... Consistently everytime Wagner is a manager destined for larger things.. Bruce is destined for fck all Our manager is as poor as any manager of the last 7 years Edited March 8, 2017 by JE- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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