Steve Bruce

[striker]

I posted earlier in this thread about Bruce's tactics handing the initiative to the opposition by being too negative. While it was a better performance tonight and with better luck Villa could have actually won the game comfortably, sitting off Championship teams negates the fear factor those teams might feel playing Villa.

Newcastle on the other hand whom player for player I don't believe are that much better than Villa have gone for the throat from the start. Rafa is showing very little respect to Championship teams and because of that it is those Championship teams who are standing off Newcastle allowing Newcastle's better players to express the difference in quality.

Bruce has just purchased a new ball playing midfield yet he is stifling those players asking them to play on the break when they've been playing pass and move football at their previous clubs. Hourihane in particular has become a ghost of the player he was overnight due to being asked to do something which is completely alien to him.

Watch any recent Villa throw ins. The player is standing behind the line with the ball stuck behind his neck for what seems like an eternity due to very little movement beyond the halfway line. I've noted opposing fans and the ref getting restless because they think the Villa player is time wasting. Not the case. He just hasn't anyone making enough space to throw it to. Thor actually executed a foul throw tonight for that very reason.

I like Bruce as a person and want him to do well for the Villa but reading this forum most want to see Villa play like Brentford in the previous game or indeed Forest tonight. I feel Villa have the wrong manager to do that.

 

[Xela]

32 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I never in my 30 years plus of supporting the villa have I seen a manager play a 5-4-0 before. Nit even mcleish was that negative.

waving the white flag Steve that for me was absolutely disgraceful 

Under McLeish it felt like 10-0-0 

[pacbuddies]

2 hours ago, wilko154 said:

What a ridiculous post. 

You could honestly predicted that Bruce wouldn't have worked out when he joined? The large majority of fans wanted him in.

To blame Xia for not spending money on a manager after the amount he has invested in this team is crazy.

The large majority of fans! Did you get your figures from the posts on VT?

It's nothing to do with predictions pal it is to do with background research. Steve Bruce has been a football manager for almost 2 decades and in that time the biggest team he has ever been given free reign over before AVFC is the mighty Sunderland and he screwed up there too.

I don't doubt Dr Tony's financial commitment but he really does need to select the correct manager before spending £millions on players.

I was proved right about McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood and nothing to date has indicated to me that I am wrong about Bruce.

[OutByEaster?]

20 minutes ago, striker said:

Watch any recent Villa throw ins. The player is standing behind the line with the ball stuck behind his neck for what seems like an eternity due to very little movement beyond the halfway line.

We've been freakishly bad at this for years - it's just odd.

 

[Upper north stander]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

We've been freakishly bad at this for years - it's just odd.

 

This.......

and the 11 men back for a corner still frigging annoys me too! Been happening under all the managers in the last 6 years.... 

 

[ciggiesnbeer]

29 minutes ago, striker said:

Newcastle on the other hand whom player for player I don't believe are that much better than Villa have gone for the throat from the start. Rafa is showing very little respect to Championship teams and because of that it is those Championship teams who are standing off Newcastle allowing Newcastle's better players to express the difference in quality.

 

 

Fair post but lets not use Newcastle's manager as a comparison here. They have been fortunate to somehow get a manager that is easily good enough for any top half Premier League team, in the Championship there is nobody anywhere near his skill level and not likely to be again for years.

Thats not a moan or a pop, its just Benitez is a very very unusual case and Newcastle fans are smart enough to know how lucky they are to have him.

Edited February 4, 2017 by ciggiesnbeer

[PieFacE]

58 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I just don't understand why every team we play against can pass the ball better than us. I don't understand why every team we play against can stop themselves from conceding pathetic stupid goals. 

 

I know what you mean and I feel the same way.  It just seems to not matter who the manager is,  what formation we play,  or what personal we play,  we just can never seem to get the basics right.  It's so frustrating.  

[TRO]

4 hours ago, terrytini said:

Put it another way.

Those who think Bruce is doing well .... exactly what difference is there between what we just watched and what we watched under Mcleish, or Black ?

Im not being an over emotional child, I'd just like to know, because I'm bored and miserable watching this, just as I was the other night, and just as I have been since about mid/ late December.

Terry,

Pro or Anti Bruce fans ....won't condone that turgid display.

The basics are completely missing.....why I have no idea,I could speculate, but that won't help.

There are little quality moments, but thats all......we are still playing like individuals who are not winning their duels and encounters.....the early exchanges told me what to expect.....we stand off far too much.

without the ball we are clueless.....and with the ball we are so easily beaten off it.

watching other teams players riding tackles whe in possession and resisting challenges.....it's nothing like the weak surrender we offer.

We are bankrupt of so much basic stuff.

[Vive_La_Villa]

The only encouraging words I heard were that Bruces knows and likes this formation and will stick to it. Regardless of our thoughts on it we need them to work on playing one way for it to come good. No more changes please! 

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, pacbuddies said:

The large majority of fans! Did you get your figures from the posts on VT?

It's nothing to do with predictions pal it is to do with background research. Steve Bruce has been a football manager for almost 2 decades and in that time the biggest team he has ever been given free reign over before AVFC is the mighty Sunderland and he screwed up there too.

I don't doubt Dr Tony's financial commitment but he really does need to select the correct manager before spending £millions on players.

I was proved right about McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood and nothing to date has indicated to me that I am wrong about Bruce.

Lambert and Mcleish have been our most successful managers in around 7 years. So what exactly were you proven right about?

[PaulC]

2 hours ago, mykeyb said:

We haven't played well at all this season, Bruce got some good wins but in some games it was by adopting the same 4-1-5 formation that RDM got roasted before.

Was he just lucky before Xmas........

Yes and luck does balance itself out over a long period of time. I thought we were unlucky today

[PaulC]

5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

The only encouraging words I heard were that Bruces knows and likes this formation and will stick to it. Regardless of our thoughts on it we need them to work on playing one way for it to come good. No more changes please! 

Yes its a formation that should suit the team long term and allows us to play our two main strikers as a front two.

[Cizzler]

Now the results have gone, and the football is just as utterly turgid, it's getting harder to see where he can actually take us.

His post-match interview today showed the signs of a desperate man, claiming Grealish's first yellow was unlucky, Forest's winner was offside, etc. He's clutching at straws.

 

Not only have the results gone and the football remained eye-gouging, but his decision-making is really being called into question (inexperienced [and also very shit] goalkeeper brought in, poor set-up against Brentford, dreadful game management today, etc.). 

All I hope is that Round and Wyness have the balls to sack him if he doesn't turn this around within the next 3-4 games. It was an old boys club move to bring in their man, but it's our club. Clock's ticking for me.

 

[NurembergVillan]

Hugely disappointed over the last few weeks.

No chance am I going to give him stick until today's players have had another 4 or 5 games together, though.  We had 3 debutants last time out, and another 2 today.  You can't expect them all to blend immediately.  On paper it looks a good team.  Even that's a step (or more) on from where we've been in the last 4 years.

But for Johnstone's cock-up we go in a goal up at half time and likely win the match.  Slender margins.  When Grealish was sent off, we were starting to look like we'd tear them apart.

We'll get there.  I hope it's under Bruce.  But even if not, the players he's brought in will move us forward.

[maqroll]

At this rate, I wonder how much of a virtue patience really is with Tony...I hate to say it, but I think Bruce needs replacing.

[terrytini]

Each to their own but it's the first time I've heard of a Manager being sympathised with for having a load of new faces !

If bedding in new players requires six or seven games why bother getting them ? We knew we didn't have the luxury of that length of time ?

Had a couple been from Argentina or Spain Ibcoujd at least see it a little, but we've bought guys who were not only playing in the Championship but doing well in it too .....

any 'bedding in' should be minimal.

[terrytini]

33 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

Hugely disappointed over the last few weeks.

No chance am I going to give him stick until today's players have had another 4 or 5 games together, though.  We had 3 debutants last time out, and another 2 today.  You can't expect them all to blend immediately.  On paper it looks a good team.  Even that's a step (or more) on from where we've been in the last 4 years.

But for Johnstone's cock-up we go in a goal up at half time and likely win the match.  Slender margins.  When Grealish was sent off, we were starting to look like we'd tear them apart.

We'll get there.  I hope it's under Bruce.  But even if not, the players he's brought in will move us forward.

I was puzzled by this so rewatched that part of the game and I have to say "about to tear them apart " is in my view an exaggeration. Basically we had just begun to occasionally play some football !!

As for the keepers cock up, yes it cost us but we had been asking for it. Watching it and looking at VT at the same time everyone could see we had sat back ( as we have in every game under Bruce when we've gone ahead) and we're asking for trouble.

Had we played in a positive manner we could have been ahead by the time we lost  Jack.

I want him to succeed as much as anyone but there was only marginal differences between today's defeat and the previous 10 games. It's just not working.

Edited February 5, 2017 by terrytini

[terrytini]

56 minutes ago, TRO said:

Terry,

Pro or Anti Bruce fans ....won't condone that turgid display.

The basics are completely missing.....why I have no idea,I could speculate, but that won't help.

There are little quality moments, but thats all......we are still playing like individuals who are not winning their duels and encounters.....the early exchanges told me what to expect.....we stand off far too much.

without the ball we are clueless.....and with the ball we are so easily beaten off it.

watching other teams players riding tackles whe in possession and resisting challenges.....it's nothing like the weak surrender we offer.

We are bankrupt of so much basic stuff.

But do you still blame the players ?

How many decent players can we bring in and move out and still say it's them ?

It isn't today, or today and the other night, it's 11 points from 11 games and even going right back almost no performances worthy of the name, no obvious system, and even 5/7 wins were against sides in the bottom 7.

Surely by any definition he is failing as a Manager ?

I want him to succeed. And for me success would be either decent football or decent results, I'm past being fussy...and I think it would be mad to sack him, but what we are seeing is awful and he must shoulder a large part of the blame.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Fair post but lets not use Newcastle's manager as a comparison here. They have been fortunate to somehow get a manager that is easily good enough for any top half Premier League team, in the Championship there is nobody anywhere near his skill level and not likely to be again for years.

Thats not a moan or a pop, its just Benitez is a very very unusual case and Newcastle fans are smart enough to know how lucky they are to have him.

True and also Newcastle were only narrowly relegated whereas we were one of the worst sides the Premier League had seen.

There are many justifiable criticisms of Bruce but being unable to match Newcadtle isn't one of them.

[Made In Aston]

I know everyone is angry and, yes, Bruce made a really moronic tactical error.

However we should  not judge him until the end of the season.  The club has made 35 changes (in and out) and have replaced  a manager midway through.  We have just introduced 4 new players in key positions and started using a new system 2 days ago . Things will take time to bed in.  

If results and performances don't significantly improve come the end of the season then we should get rid of Bruce.  Now is too early.