Next Villa Manager

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, Hoof hearted said:

"The Wangerbus is coming

and everybody's jumping

New York to San Francisco 

an intercity disco"

  Reveal hidden contents

Good luck getting that tune out of your heads, you're welcome!

 

Fortunately no danger of that for me, as I have no idea what it is. 

[Hoof hearted]

Just now, mjmooney said:

Fortunately no danger of that for me, as I have no idea what it is. 

You lucky lucky bastard!!!

[PussEKatt]

For crying out loud.Its a job.Thats what managers do.In what other occupation is it ok to be sacked 4/5 times and still get a good job ?

If we get Bruce he will do as much as he can to get us up ( thats what he does ) he is not going to take the job and then try to run us into the ground just because he played/manages SHA before.

[MrDuck]

I think we can still get promoted with the right manager... crucially we have only lost 3 league games so far. We've got a lot of talent up front for this league, and I think we're more than capable of a great run once the team clicks.

I don't know who the right manager is though, and tbh I have no real preference these days. Every one of them has been bloody woeful since MON, so my expectations are pretty low these days. I'd like a Villa man though - Gregory and Little both did a good job and their teams always looked like they cared and were always up for the fight. Well, as long as Curcic wasn't playing.

[markavfc40]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

Just being devils advocate.....would Wagner feel he would have to buy another 13 players at our club in order to get his point over.

What he has done at Huddersfield may not be repeatable here.

We don't really know which part of his actions have made the biggest bearing on his success to date.

as Impressive as it has been and the meteoric improvement he has gained.....too much of a gamble for me.

Huddersfield had far less to lose ( same league position, but not the infrastructure to support)

The thing I will say about Wagner is we are looking at this from a distance and most of us know next to nothing about him and what he may have put in place at Huddersfield and Dortmund that we are not aware of.

I look at his time at Huddersfield on paper and just looking at bare facts I see he took over last season and they were in 19th places with 31 games to go. At the end of the season they finished in 19th place. Over the summer they signed 13 players and so far this season they are flying. That is all I know aside from he worked alongside Klopp at Dortmund and managed their B team for 4 years.

I don’t think those responsible for identifying who they want as the new manager will just be looking at bare facts though as quite frankly if they are then I’d say based on that Wagner would not be a strong contender. I think this is likely to be very much Steve Rounds choice. I would hope that Wagner may well have a longstanding reputation in the game and be highly rated. Round may also have looked at Huddersfields players and see similar attributes in much of our squad and believe that Wagner could get similar results/performances out of them. In fact it may well be we have a better squad than Huddersfield as on paper that would still be my belief despite what the table tells us.

I probably still edge towards Bruce as he is the safe pair of hands for me but there is certainly something intriguing about Wagner.

[7392craig]

10 minutes ago, villarocker said:

Who knows what is right or wrong for the club. We could have Mourinho and lose every game whilst Pearson might win every game. My concern about Bruce is the amount of stick we fans have given him in the past. Will he warm to us? Would the fans turn on him quicker if things aren't going so well, considering the past feelings towards him? I don't think he's right for us purely because of those reasons.

That's understandable. However it feels like such a long time ago that the association with SHA doesn't bother me, you'd like to think he wouldn't be bothered either and would just get the job done. But you're right about the fans turning quicker maybe.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, villarocker said:

Who knows what is right or wrong for the club. We could have Mourinho and lose every game whilst Pearson might win every game. My concern about Bruce is the amount of stick we fans have given him in the past. Will he warm to us? Would the fans turn on him quicker if things aren't going so well, considering the past feelings towards him? I don't think he's right for us purely because of those reasons.

VR We are both from this city, so we should know more than most. There will always be the idiots on both sides who can't see any further than Nechells.

While I agree with your points wholeheartedly, we all need to employ a bit of maturity here.

Its just a job to them, Steve Bruce is not a Blues fan anymore than Andy Gray is a villa a fan....Some fans just take it too far.

He will get the same stick the the previous managers get if he sets us up like they did.....and he is not McLeish, He is Steve Bruce.

They want to win football matches its in their DNA and he will be right up for it in a few weeks time.....He will not need for anyone to explain that to him.

It seems OK for a villa fan to run the blues, but not the other way round.....That bit of " entitlement" is getting in the way of sensibility again IMO

I am with you....No one really knows, we are all throwing in our penny worth and so we should....but in the cold light of day we would all crave for a crystal ball.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

The thing I will say about Wagner is we are looking at this from a distance and most of us know next to nothing about him and what he may have put in place at Huddersfield and Dortmund that we are not aware of.

I look at his time at Huddersfield on paper and just looking at bare facts I see he took over last season and they were in 19th places with 31 games to go. At the end of the season they finished in 19th place. Over the summer they signed 13 players and so far this season they are flying. That is all I know aside from he worked alongside Klopp at Dortmund and managed their B team for 4 years.

I don’t think those responsible for identifying who they want as the new manager will just be looking at bare facts though as quite frankly if they are then I’d say based on that Wagner would not be a strong contender. I think this is likely to be very much Steve Rounds choice. I would hope that Wagner may well have a longstanding reputation in the game and be highly rated. Round may also have looked at Huddersfields players and see similar attributes in much of our squad and believe that Wagner could get similar results/performances out of them. In fact it may well be we have a better squad than Huddersfield as on paper that would still be my belief despite what the table tells us.

I probably still edge towards Bruce as he is the safe pair of hands for me but there is certainly something intriguing about Wagner.

As always Mark, good post.....my sentiments too. fwiw

[One For The Road]

11 minutes ago, MrDuck said:

I think we can still get promoted

I really struggle with this talk of promotion. All it does is pile more pressure on. There was never any way on Earth that this ruined club was ever going to get promoted this year. Absolutely no chance. That hasn't changed.

What we have done though is got rid of a manager that wouldn't have take us up even next year, when I do think we could have a chance given the right circumstances.

Now we need to employ a man who can help us stabilise, stop the rot, build a solid base and be ready for a crack at the play offs next season.

Steve Bruce is such a man.

Edited October 5, 2016 by One For The Road

[Hoof hearted]

Just popped on the Huddersfield forums for a gander at their thoughts and they are pretty much split 50/50 on whether Wanger should/could/would come here but on the whole they're nervous about the speculation and accept that Villa would be a step up the management ladder regardless of league positions.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

I really struggle with this talk of promotion. All it does is pile more pressure on. There was never any way on Earth that this ruined club was ever going to get promoted this year. Absolutely no chance. That hasn't changed.

What we have done though is got rid of a manager that wouldn't have take us up even next year, when I do think we could have a chance given the right circumstances.

Now we need to employ a man who can help us stabilise, stop the rot, build a solid base and be ready for a crack at the play offs next season.

Steve Bruce is such a man.

If he is appointed. 

I will be amazed, if he does not quickly identify and address the basics that have been undoing us.

that alone for me, will turn draws in to wins.

We are not far away.....but with the basics not right......we might as well be a million miles away.

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

6 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

Now we need to employ a man who can help us stabilise, stop the rot, build a solid base and be ready for a crack at the play offs next season.

To be fair though, there's a massive middle ground between 'we will go up this year' and 'we won't be anywhere near it and lets just take a crack at the playoffs next year!'

[hippo]

Just now, TRO said:

If he is appointed. 

I will be amazed, if he does not quickly identify and address the basics that have been undoing us.

that alone for me, will turn draws in to wins.

We are not far away.....but with the basics not right......we might as well be a million miles away.

 

 

^^^^^^^^ Obviously this  !! - Hope dr tony is reading 

[HanoiVillan]

16 hours ago, sidcowans21 said:

Getting a p****d off with some people on here and social media thinking they are really clever saying Tony Xia isnt going to give any manager time and they will be sacked in a few weeks. Look, Matteo was crap at his job, we were only going one way and that was downwards. After the Preston game, he said we were making progress, cmon, you want someone with that ideology in charge when it was clear to see were awful. Just standing there with his arms folded when losing matches, no shouting at the players, no motivating the players. I admire Xia for acknowledging he made a mistake and is rectifying it quickly. If we gave Matteo another 10 games and we were sitting bottom of the league, everyone would be asking why he hadn't acted sooner.

I think people aren't necessarily 'trying to be clever', simply building their future assumptions on the fact that our last three permanent managers have lasted an average of 150 days in the job. 

[dn1982]

7 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

I really struggle with this talk of promotion. All it does is pile more pressure on. There was never any way on Earth that this ruined club was ever going to get promoted this year. Absolutely no chance. That hasn't changed.

What we have done though is got rid of a manager that wouldn't have take us up even next year, when I do think we could have a chance given the right circumstances.

Now we need to employ a man who can help us stabilise, stop the rot, build a solid base and be ready for a crack at the play offs next season.

Steve Bruce is such a man.

We can easily get the playoffs this year. Next year if we are in this league we should be aiming for automatic. We have been badly managed and haven't had any luck and yet we could have easily another 5-10 pts. That means little now but with a good manager we can easily get up to 60 pts from our remaining games and that should put us in with a chance of the play offs. Over 2 legs I can't see a team beating us or in Wembley final either. 

[Gary Thomas]

Just spent 5mins reading Bruce's Wikipedia (link).  Here are the pros and cons as far as I can tell. Not making an argument one way or the other, just thought people might like a boiled down summary of what we will be getting. None of this says anything about the football he plays, which others are better qualified than me to comment on.

Pros

Guided Sheffield United to eighth place in the First Division

Guided Wigan to play-offs in Second Division (but lost semi-final)

Arrived at Blues (mid-table) and got them into play-offs and promoted on penalties

Led Blues to promotion to PL in 2007

Led Hull to promotion to PL in 2013

Led Hull to play-offs and promoted 2016

Guided Blues to three mid-table finishes in PL

Led Wigan to an 11th-place finish in the PL in 2009

Led Sunderland to 13th-place finish in the PL

Led Hull to an FA cup final

 

Cons

He likes Eric Black as his No 2

Failed to get Huddersfield to play-offs in 2000 (when real promotion contenders)

Got Blues relegated (but could be seen as a positive)

Got Hull relegated from PL in 2015

Managed Wigan and spent season struggling in PL against relegation

Managing Sunderland (run of 14 games without a win)

Sacked from Huddersfield in 2000 (6pts from 11 matches)

Sacked from Sunderland in 2011 (Sunderland in 16th position)

Bit of a reputation for not holding down jobs for a significant length of time

Resigned from Sheffield United after one season in charge

Almost walked out on Wigan after less than 2 months

Resigned from Wigan (after one year) to join Blues

Resigned from Wigan (again) to join Sunderland in 2009

Resigned from Hull

Likes a bit of controversy

Took his team off the pitch against Arsenal

Involved in a dispute with Huddersfield owner (who accused him of having an ego to feed)

Claimed Brady shafted him on a new contract with the club (probably true!)

Edited October 5, 2016 by Gary Thomas

[TRO]

There are a couple of things to remember when looking at Football managers....

• Dont't tell me, show me.
• Its not what they know, its what they DO.

If I was going to appoint a manager on what they know, I would look no further then Glen Hoddle......The Sky studios are full of them.

My opinion is RDM and the likes are champagne managers, don't really want to get their hands dirty, choose to keep their own councel because its cool,its Hollywood, they only engage in platitudes and nondescript soundbites......We want one like we have had in the past who can understand what 110% work rate means ( even though some laughed) winning your individual battles, embracing the physical element of the game and then imposing YOUR skill on the opposition.

To hell with "that was 40 years ago".....old principles die hard.

They don't have to come out and do the HAKA......but they could engage in the dressing room instead.

Edited October 5, 2016 by TRO

[GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS]

On 04/10/2016 at 11:06, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

I feel like Bruce is one of those managers who’s time is coming to an end.  I haven’t seen anything to suggest he can innovate and adapt to the ever evolving football landscape, something which I think guys like Allardyce and even Pullis to some extent have done.  From what I can see, he’s a good man manager who learnt from the best, but has gotten by through implementing the same old ideas which are slowly becoming outdated and less effective. 

Apologies for reposting part of my own post, but you should really read this why we should avoid Bruce from the Guardian.  Aside from the support it give my argument, I feel like that entire list of events from the end of his reign at Sunderland would simply be repeated if he joined Villa - right down to the excuse about the fans not accepting him because he was a Geordie, only this time it'd be because he used to manage the blues.

[cyrusr]

We go again…

Whilst I thought RDM would have been given more time to turn it around, can’t say I’m unhappy that he is gone. Players look decent (certainly better than we should be), coaching staff seem promising and the board for once is positive. Whilst it was always going to be a big ask, he knew the expectations of the board. IMO from day 1 RDM never felt we could get promoted this season. He may be right (time will tell) but he has been given the backing to do so and should have done better. Tactically questionable, substitutions bizarre and a mindset of never closing games down.

So who’s next on the chopping block? Whoever it is, needs to settle quickly and needs to be given time. That being said, of the names mentioned here and the list from William Hill of possible managers (just couldn’t be arsed to go through all betting sites – just easy) mention of a 10-man list is involved. As such IMO likely list is going to be:

Steve Bruce, David Wagner, Steve Clarke, Chris Hughton, Lee Johnson, Mick McCarthy, Dean Smith, Simon Grayson, Gary Rowett & Karl Robinson

I would have put Steve Cotterill & Ryan Giggs given profiles but apparently not being considered. I wouldn’t rule them out right now and may pop up again at some point, Giggs more so than Cotterill. Of the other names mentioned/listed. I would say Tony Pulis, Mark Hughes & Garry Monk are unlikely. All 3 in jobs at the moment and unlikely to switch unless they have been given the boot by their current clubs before we have appointed someone. Whilst rumours persist around Pulis and Hughes (and Monk is at Leeds so could go tomorrow!) I do not think these guys will be on any list.

As for Tim Sherwood & Harry Redknapp they are also unlikely. These 2 both have a point to prove and may be willing for the job. However, both come with baggage and risk. I cannot foresee them being realistically considered for the job.

This lot, who, IMO are not going to happen:

Roy Keane, Chris Coleman & Martin O'Neill are all in cushy international jobs – why give that up now to manage us? I cannot imagine any of these wanting to go back into club management at this stage. These 3 are not even in the starting block.

Tony Mowbray, Nigel Pearson, Sam Allardyce, Steve McClaren & Nigel Adkins have all been sacked/resigned/imminently being sacked due to poor performance/dodgy dealings. This lot are not going to be touched with a barge pole (who has ever even used a barge pole???). The next bunch I almost can’t be bothered to explain but just are not going to happen:

David Moyes because he turned us down last time and failing at Sunderland in any event. Neil Warnock has just taken the Cardiff job. Sean Dyche is doing decent with Burnley in the Premier League – why swap?  John Carver – Seriously? Why does he keep turning up as an option??? Can someone tell the betting companies that this is just stupid. Shall I wait for Glen Hoddle and Jürgen Klinsmann to appear?

So of the names mentioned who will get it? It depends on what Tony wants. If he wants promotion this season and nothing else will do, then Steve Bruce, Mick McCarthy, Steve Clarke & Chris Hughton are the likely candidates. Bruce & McCarthy have been there done that so many times would be ideal to reach for immediate promotion. Will not be pretty and to be honest not keen on either of them, but will probably do the job. Hughton is still doing decent with Brighton and has done it before too with Norwich so again has pedigree in it. Whether he would leave Brighton after a new contract signed in the summer, not so sure. Bruce has to be nailed on if this is what the board want. Available, done it before, yes ex-blues but he is a damn sight better than McLeish!

Clarke is a peculiar one. Would not have rated as the manager for us, but he is already a part of the set up and will be given an opportunity to show the board what he could do. He certainly would have a head start over every other candidate and if he does a job and wins the next few games, he could really push himself to be a serious contender. That might be what the board want and he could well get it.  

 

If the club want to build a footballing philosophy a la Southampton/Leicester and would probable want to bringing in a young, progressive manager to do the job then I am not sure those above will do the job so much (maybe Hughton). To me that would mean one of David Wagner, Lee Johnson, Dean Smith, Simon Grayson, Gary Rowett & Karl Robinson. All managers that have been building a team for some time and have been getting the plaudits for it. They could get hold of the team and with the right backing really create a team and a club that pushes us. If one of these was appointed, then this is what they will want to do. One of these guys would be an exciting prospect and one that could get me quite excited.

This ability to push beyond this season was, IMO, why RDM was appointed in the first place, it was thought he could get us immediate promotion and create a team for the future. Clearly though, he was not performing good enough and the club wants immediate promotion. That is why for me, it is a manager in that category that will probably “guarantee” immediate promotion.

That is why, for me, there are only 2 realistic candidates: Steve Bruce and Steve Clarke. If that was the choice, based on what we know, Bruce is the candidate for me. I do like the sound of Wagner, Smith & Rowett in particular but I do not think this is what Tony is looking for this season. He will want to go with a sure bet. 

(I have Bolded the summary bits for those that this is a TLDR post  )

Edited October 5, 2016 by cyrusr
layout went awry a little.

[hippo]

34 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

The thing I will say about Wagner is we are looking at this from a distance and most of us know next to nothing about him and what he may have put in place at Huddersfield and Dortmund that we are not aware of.

I look at his time at Huddersfield on paper and just looking at bare facts I see he took over last season and they were in 19th places with 31 games to go. At the end of the season they finished in 19th place. Over the summer they signed 13 players and so far this season they are flying. That is all I know aside from he worked alongside Klopp at Dortmund and managed their B team for 4 years.

I don’t think those responsible for identifying who they want as the new manager will just be looking at bare facts though as quite frankly if they are then I’d say based on that Wagner would not be a strong contender. I think this is likely to be very much Steve Rounds choice. I would hope that Wagner may well have a longstanding reputation in the game and be highly rated. Round may also have looked at Huddersfields players and see similar attributes in much of our squad and believe that Wagner could get similar results/performances out of them. In fact it may well be we have a better squad than Huddersfield as on paper that would still be my belief despite what the table tells us.

I probably still edge towards Bruce as he is the safe pair of hands for me but there is certainly something intriguing about Wagner.

Hmmmm

Part of that actually bothers me. Without his own players he made no impact. I believe on the whole we have good players in our squad - would he get any impact or would he start over. Basically his Huddersfield side have a good run of 11 games, and he used to be Klopps assistant. Id want something more