Arsenal

[bobzy]

42 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It’s quite funny seeing people trying to claim arsenal haven’t bottled it

Depends what we mean by "bottling it", I suppose.  Arsenal losing to Brighton isn't a surprising result; and their fixtures immediately before this one (and after a humbling against Man City) saw them beat Chelsea and Newcastle.

You could probably attribute "bottling it" to them failing to beat Southampton at home, but in their last 15 games, they've lost three times - twice to Man City and once to Brighton.  It's hardly a massive bottle job at all.

[Stevo985]

9 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Depends what we mean by "bottling it", I suppose.  Arsenal losing to Brighton isn't a surprising result; and their fixtures immediately before this one (and after a humbling against Man City) saw them beat Chelsea and Newcastle.

You could probably attribute "bottling it" to them failing to beat Southampton at home, but in their last 15 games, they've lost three times - twice to Man City and once to Brighton.  It's hardly a massive bottle job at all.

It’s the very definition of bottling it

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It’s the very definition of bottling it

Nah, they've had 1 surprise result.  It happens.

[Genie]

I mentioned in another thread (or possibly this one) that squad depth is a major factor here. City’s is packed with top drawer quality all desperately eager to impress. The first choice 14/15 players get plenty of rests during the season to avoid them getting burned out, and the team doesn’t suffer for it. 

Arsenal just couldn’t compete with that over 38 games.

TL:DR, City the cheats have stolen it with their financial doping of a ludicrous squad.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Genie

[Stevo985]

Just now, bobzy said:

Nah, they've had 1 surprise result.  It happens.

They were winning the league, but have only won 2 of their last 7, dropping points to Southampton, West Ham and a below par Liverpool 3 games in a row, lost to their title rivals and then got battered by Brighton. 
 

On what planet is that not bottling it?

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Nah, they've had 1 surprise result.  It happens.

They won 2 of their last 7. Dropped points against Brighton, West Ham and Southampton.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Genie

[bobzy]

8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

They were winning the league, but have only won 2 of their last 7, dropping points to Southampton, West Ham and a below par Liverpool 3 games in a row, lost to their title rivals and then got battered by Brighton. 

On what planet is that not bottling it?

None of those results are particularly surprising bar them dropping points to Southampton.  You could throw in West Ham away too, I suppose, but a point at Anfield is a good result and Brighton are a good side.  Them beating Arsenal isn't a shock.

Even if they had 4 extra points now, they wouldn't be winning the title.

 

 

Edit:  I guess I don't see failing to win every match as "bottling it".

Edited May 15, 2023 by bobzy

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

None of those results are particularly surprising bar them dropping points to Southampton.  You could throw in West Ham away too, I suppose, but a point at Anfield is a good result and Brighton are a good side.  Them beating Arsenal isn't a shock.

Even if they had 4 extra points now, they wouldn't be winning the title.

 

 

Edit:  I guess I don't see failing to win every match as "bottling it".

You don’t think drawing to West Ham, losing to Brighton or not beating liverpool is surprising? For a team top of the league?

Nobody is saying they should win every game. But when you’re leading and you do something shit to end up not winning, that is by the very definition of the term, bottling it. 
 

2 wins in 7 in the run in of a title race is a bottle job before you even consider the teams they faced

[bobzy]

8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You don’t think drawing to West Ham, losing to Brighton or not beating liverpool is surprising? For a team top of the league?

Nobody is saying they should win every game. But when you’re leading and you do something shit to end up not winning, that is by the very definition of the term, bottling it. 
 

2 wins in 7 in the run in of a title race is a bottle job before you even consider the teams they faced

That's correct, I don't think it's surprising (although arguably not beating West Ham is).

The bit in bold, context is entirely important.

 

Not that I'm fussed tbh  

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

That's correct, I don't think it's surprising (although arguably not beating West Ham is).

The bit in bold, context is entirely important.

 

Not that I'm fussed tbh  

The context is they’d be winning the league if they got a good set of results in those games. 
 

They got 9 points out of a possible 21 with average fixtures. 
 

Bottled it. 

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

The context is they’d be winning the league if they got a good set of results in those games. 
 

They got 9 points out of a possible 21 with average fixtures. 
 

Bottled it. 

3 of their 7 games were Away at Man City, Liverpool and Newcastle.  "Average"  

[Mark Albrighton]

It’s the manner of the results as much anything.

Drawing away at Liverpool in the abstract is fine. If Arsenal had come back from two nil down, it would be considered a very good result. But it’s not how it played out. That throwing away of a win must have had some impact on the following game against West Ham.

Like when Villa drew with Sheffield United 3-3. Both teams got a point, but I know which one was happier and which one felt they fluffed their lines.

Losing to Brighton, yeah they’re a good side but they’re not better than Arsenal. And losing 3-0 at home to them in a must win game is dreadful.

If you’re in a title race, you can’t be throwing away 2-0 leads, dropping points to the worst team in the league and getting walloped 3-0 at home and expect people not to question things.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Mark Albrighton

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, Mark Albrighton said:

If you’re in a title race, you can’t be throwing away 2-0 leads, dropping points to the worst team in the league and getting walloped 3-0 at home and expect people not to question things.

That's fair - had forgotten they were 2-0 up against West Ham tbh.

[Stevo985]

15 minutes ago, bobzy said:

3 of their 7 games were Away at Man City, Liverpool and Newcastle.  "Average"  

And 3 of them were against West Ham, Southampton and Chelsea

You know what "Average" means, right?

[Dale]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

Nah, that’s nonsense tbh. It’s not like Arsenal (or any PL team really) are paupers

Man City have spent roughly twice net what Arsenal have in the past decade, only teams with comparative spending are Utd/Chelsea (basket cases). Their wage bill is significantly higher too (near double - and that's only what goes through the books) - Pep plays on easy mode, Barca, Bayern and City the best squad on arrival and departure, expectation being another league and an ECL every 2-3 years. 

Liverpool's title and European success is all the more impressive given that their net spend is comparative pittance. Give Arteta, Klopp, Unai or any number of other good coaches City and they too would win the league at a canter. As we know it comes with an asterisk in any case. 

He's elite no doubt, but best coach in the world, I'm just not sure. Highest profile, absolutely no doubt. 

That Arsenal have been able to compete is impressive. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Dale

[HanoiVillan]

42 minutes ago, bobzy said:

None of those results are particularly surprising bar them dropping points to Southampton. 

 

The issue with this is that while none of the results may be 'particularly surprising' on their own, *collectively* they are a very poor return for a side chasing a title, hence why people say they bottled it. If Arsenal were level with us and Spurs fighting for 7th, those might be an average set of results, but unfortunately the standards required to win a title are that you win nearly every game. 

[sne]

Arsenal are 6th in the form table over the last 10 games and 12th over the last 6.

They've bottled it and they can't even blame it on a busy schedule due to European and cup football.

City absolutely should be winning the league considering their squad but considering the advantage Arsenal had it's a monumental bottle job. It's mainly their defense that has broken down after the Saliba injury. Shipped 17 goals in their last 9

[bobzy]

23 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

And 3 of them were against West Ham, Southampton and Chelsea

You know what "Average" means, right?

That’s the 3 toughest away trips possible this season, plus home games against a side chasing Europe and a derby against Chelsea.

It’s about as hard a 7 game run can be in this league. We won’t have had one as tough this season.

You know what “average” means though, I’m sure.

 

Edit: Man Utd away actually harder than Newcastle away, my bad!

Edited May 15, 2023 by bobzy

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

That’s the 3 toughest away trips possible this season, plus home games against a side chasing Europe and a derby against Chelsea.

It’s about as hard a 7 game run can be in this league. We won’t have had one as tough this season.

You know what “average” means though, I’m sure.

I mean, you're making things up now.

Our run before christmas:

 

Newcastle, Man Utd, Brighton, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Wolves

 

There is no way you can dress 9 points out of 21 for a team at the top of the table chasing the title as what you would expect  

There were some hard fixtures in there, but as a run of fixtures, it was average, especially for a team chasing the title. 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

Nah, they've had 1 surprise result.  It happens.

They drew at home with the bottom team and threw away two 2 goal leads before then