Squad / Team - how do you see it?

[Delphinho123]

On 14 September 2016 at 10:26, KHV said:

We are weak in the goalkeeping department. For some reason the strongest goalkeeper who has played in this league doesn't even get in the squad let alone start. Baffling as Gollini and Bunn have lost us points.

In the centre back area I think we are light. Injury and suspension could lead to a Baker/Richards combination!

Right back area still has flaws. The best option Bacuna who is okay going forwards and a bit shaky at the back has been replaced by someone who is no good going forward and shaky at the back. Again rather odd like the goalkeeper situation.

Left back we have Cissokho and Amavi, one can defend and one can't and one is good going forward the other one not is not so good. FWIW Cissokho is the better option.

Midfield really is the crowning turd in the water pipe. Westwood and Gardner don't need to be discussed as I'm sure we have covered them enough. We have then bought Tshibola who nobody had heard of and who was injured last year and who is injured again. Jury out on that one. And we bought the ageing Jedinak from Palace and we'll that's your lot for midfield. Very very weak and as we have seen it gets exposed time and time again.

Then we have the all singing all dancing strikeforce where we are unbalanced and are forced to have players out of position. We have 1 wide man Adomah, we then have Grealish and Ayew who's best position is the number 10 role, and we have Kodjia,  Mccormack and Gestede who are all best when they are played further forward up top. Gestede will probably lose his starting place and and Kodjia will start upfront and then everyone ele will play in a role where they are not their strongest. A case of too many cooks? Maybe.

Personally I would rather have not signed DeLaet,Mccormack,Jedinak and bought a couple of quality central midfielders in for the money we spent on them and have a more balanced team. Midfield is where we lose games.

Totes agree, man.

We're currently just playing a load of strikers pretty much anywhere we can fit them in and expecting to win games. We'll always score, but our midfield then leaves our defence so exposed, we usually concede as well. 

We signed some really good players this summer but we didn't really get the right balance. Our midfield is awful still. 

[KJT123]

I'm not convinced that 3 centre backs is the way to go. Our problems stem from the midfield and the opposition finding it way too easy to run through the middle of the park at will. 

I'd be playing three in the middle:

                        Gollini

Bacuna    Elphick    Chester    Amavi             

                       Jedinak

          Tshibola          Westwood

 

Leaves us with a selection headache for the final three places though. 

[sne]

Lucas Silva, who was forced to retire due to hearth problems has been cleared to play and is training with Real Madrid again after a months rest.

Since Real already have registered their squad and have the maximum number of non EU players he won't eligible for them this season.

He will therefore be loaned out... Probably not until January, but still.

 

 

 

[Grasshopper]

35 minutes ago, sne said:

Lucas Silva, who was forced to retire due to hearth problems has been cleared to play and is training with Real Madrid again after a months rest.

Since Real already have registered their squad and have the maximum number of non EU players he won't eligible for them this season.

He will therefore be loaned out... Probably not until January, but still.

 

 

Maybe we can Mis-spell Champions League to Championship in Spanish

or

Tell him we're gonna do a "Lester Citeh"

[Grasshopper]

I think one thing has been overlooked about the 50/60mill outlay. (Net-spend is irrelevant here) I would like to make more relevance to How many over How much.

2 seasons ago we lost Benteke, Delph, Vlaar & Cleverley. And survived against the odds.

last season realistically (and in hindsight) we needed

1GK 1RB 1LB 2CB 1RW 1LW 1AM & 1CF added to Amavi (injured > Cissokho) Gana Veretout Ayew and Okore Clark Sanchez Grealish.

To have a chance of staying in the PL.

add the cost of those 9 players we didnt buy, but needed. You are talking about an outlay of another 50mill at least.

So of the

1GK 1RB 1LB 2CB 1RW 1LW 1AM & 1CF that we didnt get last season, (even if so many "buys" still would/nt have kept us up).

We bought in this season

1GK who has looked shaky

1RB who is now out injured

2 CB's

1winger we havent seen much of

2CM's who have been/are injured

3 Forwards who look the part

However, we still have problems with the numbers & quality of the squad.

We are stil not "promotion strong" in the following positions

GK RB & Cover CB cover CM & CM cover (We sold Gana) & Winger cover.

That's another 7 players. How much would that cost added to the alteady 55/60mill spent?

Basically we needed a complete new squad,added to what little quality we had, to have stayed in the PL (last season) - We failed.

This season we needed a complete new squad, added to what little quality we had, to contend for promotion - We are in the process of failing.

Whoever is behind it all has done a great job of getting so much **** out and so many good one in.

But!

The job is incomplete and we have what we have to go on with.

Still all in all, it's not good enough so far. (I dont expect Top of the league) considering who we've come up against and how niave we have dropped points. I have no confidence in RDM and fear the worst against Newcastle.

They know the sooner they score, the sooner the crowd will turn. For them the more the merrier.

They also know to hang on in there because RDM has proved that he can get it wrong by bottling it (Keegan-style - how ironic).

[wilko154]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

I think one thing has been overlooked about the 50/60mill outlay. (Net-spend is irrelevant here) I would like to make more relevance to How many over How much.

2 seasons ago we lost Benteke, Delph, Vlaar & Cleverley. And survived against the odds.

 

Don't want to burst your bubble here mate but we didn't survive against the odds, we were relegated in a humiliating fashion...

[Grasshopper]

23 hours ago, wilko154 said:

Don't want to burst your bubble here mate but we didn't survive against the odds, we were relegated in a humiliating fashion...

@wilko154

just read my original post, I worded it wrong.

I meant 

With Benteke Delph Cleverley & Vlaar in the team we survived relegation.

Against the odds be cause at the 0-2 Hull defeat we looked like a relegated team.

My basic point was

50+mill spent but couldnt survive PL

50+mill spent doesnt look like we'll get back

to Survive PL we needed more players and of quality to the tune of 100+mill

same again this season 100+mill to get back up

[bobzy]

6 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

to Survive PL we needed more players and of quality to the tune of 100+mill

same again this season 100+mill to get back up

Disagree entirely.  Much more important to be getting the right players in - not the most expensive.

Saying we need to spend £100m to get promoted from the Championship is just daft.

[Grasshopper]

10 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Disagree entirely.  Much more important to be getting the right players in - not the most expensive.

Saying we need to spend £100m to get promoted from the Championship is just daft.

Sorry bobzy

i agree with you on many things but just read back your statement please then consider this

50+mill spent

GK suspect

RB out injured

2CMs injury prone/getting on

we are short in defence midfield wingers till Jan

ACON in Jan/feb 

Dr has already ssid he'll buy/loan cover/reinforcements

so was 50 enough?

I think not

60? 70? 80?

the 100mill figure you say is "daft" gets closer and closer

or are you gonna garantee me promotion at just the 50mill we spend?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

please say yes so I can claim my i-points

[bobzy]

As I say mate, it's more about who is brought in.  I don't consider McCormack or Kodjia (at a combined £28m?) good value for money, but they look like handy players.  Chester at £9m I'm much less convinced by - so I think there are better alternatives out there who may well be cheaper.

I agree with the concerns over central midfield but, again, I don't think it needs £20m thrown at it.  You could get the right player(s) in for less money.

[astonaidan]

4 hours ago, bobzy said:

As I say mate, it's more about who is brought in.  I don't consider McCormack or Kodjia (at a combined £28m?) good value for money, but they look like handy players.  Chester at £9m I'm much less convinced by - so I think there are better alternatives out there who may well be cheaper.

I agree with the concerns over central midfield but, again, I don't think it needs £20m thrown at it.  You could get the right player(s) in for less money.

Who would be the player youd go for. I reckon it will cost us 15 mill to get a good starter 

[VillaCas]

On 14 September 2016 at 12:39, DCJonah said:

You think he's been dropped from the squad? Haha. 

Again Ayew playing and Grealish nowhere! Still got Grealish in your starting XI haha 

[DCJonah]

37 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

Again Ayew playing and Grealish nowhere! Still got Grealish in your starting XI haha 

Grealish was injured and is now suspended. 

 

[VillaCas]

7 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Grealish was injured and is now suspended. 

 

Whatever. We were debating who would lose their place in a full strength team. Part of the thinking has to factor in the fact that Grealish is unprofessional and a loose cannon - You ridiculed my suggestion that Grealish would not win a place in the starting line-up yet since our discussion Ayew has started every game and Grealish none. It's still the case that, at the moment, Ayew is a nailed-on starter and Grealish will have to try and earn a place. 

[rodders0223]

On 21/09/2016 at 12:40, Grasshopper said:

Sorry bobzy

i agree with you on many things but just read back your statement please then consider this

50+mill spent

GK suspect

RB out injured

2CMs injury prone/getting on

we are short in defence midfield wingers till Jan

ACON in Jan/feb 

Dr has already ssid he'll buy/loan cover/reinforcements

so was 50 enough?

I think not

60? 70? 80?

the 100mill figure you say is "daft" gets closer and closer

or are you gonna garantee me promotion at just the 50mill we spend?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

please say yes so I can claim my i-points

You are forgetting that we might have the next 'Class of 92' sitting in our academy.

 

[Michael118]

On 9/3/2016 at 18:11, Ginko said:

@Michael118 I've read through your post where you gathered your past predictions together and whilst you weren't entirely without a few valid points I think you're confusing a couple of things.

First of all, just because you didn't rate Garde from day one and weren't willing to give him a chance when others were doesn't mean you were proven correct when we let him go. He had very little support from Lerner in terms of getting the bad apples out and his players in and joined us when we were in the worst slump in the last ten years where anyone would have struggled, especially without the proper resources. I don't think many were ecstatic for his appointment but many were open-minded enough to give him a chance. It's a pity Lerner didn't or things could have been different.

I seem to remember many beginning to warm to the idea of Allardyce (myself included) considering the position we found ourselves in, but just because they weren't totally thrilled with it or had some negative opinions of him doesn't necessarily mean we didn't think he was one of the best and realistic options at the time. Either way, we'll never know how Big Sam would have fared but considering Lerner wasn't coughing up you can imagine he wouldn't have had it easy either. Perhaps he'd have done better but we'll never know and you can't claim to be correct when that point is unprovable.

As for your opinion on Elphick not being good enough for Bournemouth, unless you are privy to their coaching and management meetings then what you're claiming is, once again, pure here-say. He was incredibly popular with the fans and previously the team captain so you'd imagine he was well thought of by the manager too. Perhaps he wanted to leave when we came calling because we are who we are, perhaps we offered him too much money he couldn't turn it down. Perhaps being out for the majority of the season coupled with a new opportunity in a slightly less taxing league that he is confident playing in with a team heavily tipped for promotion was just what he wanted at that point in his career. You're passing off opinion as fact which, again, doesn't make you right. No one knows the truth.

Finally, your opinion on Clark and Okore being 'unproven' and better than Elphick and Chester is pure hogwash and there is actual evidence to the contrary. Clark has had hundreds of chances, 134 to be precise (if Wiki is to be believed), and was a main contributor of the team that took us down last season. Okore has had opportunities too, in between long bouts of injuries, and has not only made a number of dreadful mistakes (as has Clark) but he had the gall to talk to the press in order to engineer a move away right when we needed everyone's head in the game fighting for Premier League survival. Elphick and Chester want to be here and have already looked more comfortable and professional than Clark and Okore. They will take time to bed in, as will the other new signings, but I can't blame most fans for being confident that they will prove to be better for us than two players who have proved to be wastes of spaces in recent seasons.

Sorry it took me so long to reply to this.

There isn't much in a subjective world like football you can prove 100%. I think the fact Sunderland were generally regarded as the worst team in the Premier League at the beginning of last season and we were viewed as a team likely to improve and from a similar position on the table when they were appointed, Allardyce managed to get them to safety and Remi Garde couldn't is close enough to 'proof' for me.

I also remember that time clearly and there were very few, if any, who were in favour of apppointing Allardyce until he started to turn things around at Sunderland. That's why I quoted sne's post which received 9 likes compared to 0 for my reply and every other post I made suggesting Allardyce. Some quotes to further illustrate this:

 

Reply by amole to one of my posts where I suggested we wouldn't be in this position if we appointed Alllardyce or Pulis:

Quote

there is not a chance this ship was being turned around that quickly and it is pretty crazy to suggest any of the managers you mentioned could have done it any quicker than Garde has. Case in point, the amazing job Allardyce is doing keeping Sunderland up.

 

Post by thunderball:

Quote

Jim, Jonah and a few others used to be very anti Garde, not sure where they stand now or maybe have stopped posting here because of the vigorous defence Garde now gets? But let's not be too tough on Mike and Blaster, we should value all opinions however I think in general the responses they have provoked have been well made. 

 

My reply:

Quote

For the record, I'm not anti Garde. There are better managers we could have appointed and there are worse. He comes across to me as mediocre at best and not the manager we needed to dig us out of a hole quickly. Considering the quality of managers in the premier league right now and the mountain he has to climb I can't see him being a success.

(0 likes)

 

Reply by Keyblade:

Quote

It's funny because mediocre at best is the perfect summation of the CV's of people like Allardyce and Pulis. Like literally, they have never been anything better than mediocre.

(6 likes)

 

My reply:

Quote

You have to be better than mediocre to make it in the premier league as long as Allardyce and Pulis have.

What Allardyce achieved at Bolton was a lot better than mediocre.

(0 likes)

 

A few days later Sunderland win and move within 4 points of safety. Thunderball posts:

Quote

Don't tell Michael118 Allardyce just beat Man Utd.

 

Regarding Elphick, the impression I got was he was allowed to leave Bournemouth because they didn't see him as being quite good enough for the Premier League. That impression has come from reading this forum and other online articles. If it's not accurate then I take it back. It doesn't change my opinion though which is right now he isn't a Premier League quality centre back and is a significant downgrade on Clark and Okore.

Regarding Clark and Okore, I never said they were "unproven". I just think they suffered from similar issues which prevented Gana and other players from realising their potential while with us. I've said a lot about Ciaran Clark in the Ciaran Clark thread. Just check the last few pages.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Michael118

[Michael118]

On 9/4/2016 at 01:07, VillanousOne said:

Only version 6? So out of date.

[rodders0223]

£27m on strikers along with Rudy and Ayew. Meanwhile we have a midfield of Westwood and Jedinak. 

Someone should be shot.

[KHV]

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

£27m on strikers along with Rudy and Ayew. Meanwhile we have a midfield of Westwood and Jedinak. 

Someone should be shot.

Preferably Westwood and Jedinak 

[sidcow]

I was never of the opinion that Gollini was the answer to our goalkeeping question. We could have got a decent enough championship stopper for very little outlay and that would have sufficed. 

One for the future is what you do when you are interested PL with a decent keeper already in situ so you loan out your development project for experience. 

Undoubtedly should have done much more in midfield but I think they thought Gardner would be a lot better than he has shown and you can say the same for Gresford as well.