Squad / Team - how do you see it?

[Vive_La_Villa]

The problem we've had for years is we have no way of playing.  Rather than creating systems to accomodate players I'd like to see players learning to accomodate systems. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Subs - Steer, Amavi, Baker, Adomah, Westwood, Kodjia, Bacuna

Adomah and Kodjia would have to earn their places for me assuming everyone is fit. It's a long old season, form will come and go for many. What I am delighted about is how deep the bench looks. There's still not much beyond that 18, but it's a darn sight better than it was even a week ago. 

Edit - it has only just dawned on me I initially left Bacuna out. I would prefer him to Green on the bench, not just because he has played well so far this season but because of his added versatility and unpredictability. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug.

[Chewie]

On 1 September 2016 at 16:20, dont_do_it_doug. said:

What, he's not sure whether to eat himself?

[skarroki]

11 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

The problem we've had for years is we have no way of playing.  Rather than creating systems to accomodate players I'd like to see players learning to accomodate systems. 

I think that will be what Steve Round will bring to the table. Instill a way of playing, a philosophy at Villa. So when we sign players, change coaching staff, we replace like for like every time. Similar to how Southampton looks to be run, or Swansea. I think it's a good design for the lesser clubs to continually generate profit and move forward, even if there are setbacks. Imagine how a team like Swansea would do with a fan base the size of Villas and an owner as rich when they were in the championship. I think that's the route we're taking. 

[Michael118]

On 9/2/2016 at 00:50, Mjvilla said:

Ok, I'm not going to quote you michael118, but with those you at least had some chance of being right. Veretout, was a gamble. Remi garde, was a gamble. Some of them I don't see why you've bought it up, because you didn't get a like? Doesn't necessarily mean people didn't agree with you?

I think elphick and Chester being better than Clark and Okore isn't a gamble. It's pretty set in stone based on the shit Clark and Okore served up for us the last few years. Gil did nothing to impress us. Bacuna had a stinking attitude which is the main gripe with him... He's a limited squad player at best and I think that'll be proven correct in the coming weeks.

as for kozak and Agbonlahor being better than what we've got. Kozak has shown nothing since being here, Agbonlahor has the shittest attitude of them all. Against a striker that scored 19 in the championship last year and all the other front players. How many have kozak and gabby scored? So proof is in the pudding there. I think you're just trying to be so different, in the hope that you get one or two right, that it comes across as obnoxious and arrogant. Just my opinion of course, which as you rightly say, we are all entitled to.

I spent 3 hours or so going through my old posts, copying & pasting on an old and slow computer to help you out and you conclude by calling me arrogant and obnoxious. All class, mate.

I've spoken my truth from day 1 on these forums and been as considerate and respectful as I possibly can be while remaining honest and to the point. If you think I would waste my time making stuff up for the sake of "being different" to get "one or two things right", then all I can say is you are wrong.

Maybe in future I'll stick to predictions which have zero chance of being right. I would have the same chance of receiving any credit.

I included some of the posts I did to provide context and highlight the difference in popularity between my view and the opposing view. Afterall you did ask me to "provide an example of some of these unpopular views which became correct". 0 likes alone doesn't make a post unpopular but when you compare it to 11 or 22 likes for the replies I received, in the context of a debate, then it does.

Your view that Elphick and Chester are better than Okore and Clark is not "set in stone" at all. Elphick was allowed to leave Boornemouth because they didn't see him as a regular starter in the Premier League and they don't exactly have an overabundance of quality centre backs to pick from. What Bournemouth think of Elphick doesn't mean a lot to me, but I happen to agree. Chester also hasn't established himself as a Premier League quality centre back. My view is Clark and Okore would if given the chance and I am confident of that.

In regards to Kodjia - I don't rely heavily on stats or past performances to predict a future outcome. Rudy Gestede might have scored 20 goals for Blackburn in 14/15 but I don't rate him as a player and haven't since the day we signed him. Could he reproduce his Blackburn form for us in the Championship? I don't know, but I wouldn't want to be banking on it. Similarly, I don't put a lot of weight on the goals Kodjia has scored and am reserving judgement until I see him play. From the clips I've seen I'm not disappointed or overly thrilled with the signing. On the other hand, I know, if fit, Agbonlahor and Kozak are good enough for the Premier League and that makes me certain they would be good enough for us in the Championship.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Michael118

[Michael118]

Two more for you, @Mjvilla

 

On Jan 30, I posted:

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One of the biggest obstacles for us this season has been that most of the teams we would normally be competing with to avoid relegation have managed to acquire or already had some of the best and most promising managers in the Premier League. I'm referring to Leicester, Sunderland, Watford, West Brom, Bournemouth, West Ham and now Swansea. Player for player our squad is no worse and I would argue better than all of these teams. When I saw the manager's these teams were hiring at the beginning of the season I knew we were in for an uphill battle. Sunderland and Swansea started poorly but have made good appointments and I can see them both reaching safety. Newcastle who I was expecting to go down have signed Shelvey and Townsend which makes them look a lot stronger.  I think it will be Villa and Norwich (who will be relegated) and I wouldn't want to pick the other.

 

On Jul 25, in the Aly Cissokho thread, I posted:

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He's easily our 2nd best left back and our back four looks so much more solid with him in it.

 

Follow up posts:

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O.k as back up.

 

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When has our back 4 looked solid? He's had little impact in improving our defence in his time here

 

I replied:

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When we beat Crystal Palace 1-0 last season

 

Follow up posts:

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What's 1 game out of 38

 

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He had a blinder against Chelsea at home.... Oh, wait. No he didn't. 

 

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I thought you said he was wearing blinders against Chelsea at home and thought "that explains it."

 

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I'd rather Bennett (started the first game) to be honest

 

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amazingly a downgrade on Richardson

 

And anyone who still thinks I am trolling, this was one of my first posts on Villa Talk:

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I could see a fit Gabby and Kozak working well together. But Gabby at the moment looks overweight and not mobile enough.

I still think he has a role to play though. He's got passion and still has the ability to step up at important times and make things happen. I would use him as a sub or as a starter but not for a full 90 mins. Don't think he's able to sustain it at the required level at the moment.

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by Michael118
Grammar & punctuation

[Ginko]

@Michael118 I've read through your post where you gathered your past predictions together and whilst you weren't entirely without a few valid points I think you're confusing a couple of things.

First of all, just because you didn't rate Garde from day one and weren't willing to give him a chance when others were doesn't mean you were proven correct when we let him go. He had very little support from Lerner in terms of getting the bad apples out and his players in and joined us when we were in the worst slump in the last ten years where anyone would have struggled, especially without the proper resources. I don't think many were ecstatic for his appointment but many were open-minded enough to give him a chance. It's a pity Lerner didn't or things could have been different.

I seem to remember many beginning to warm to the idea of Allardyce (myself included) considering the position we found ourselves in, but just because they weren't totally thrilled with it or had some negative opinions of him doesn't necessarily mean we didn't think he was one of the best and realistic options at the time. Either way, we'll never know how Big Sam would have fared but considering Lerner wasn't coughing up you can imagine he wouldn't have had it easy either. Perhaps he'd have done better but we'll never know and you can't claim to be correct when that point is unprovable.

As for your opinion on Elphick not being good enough for Bournemouth, unless you are privy to their coaching and management meetings then what you're claiming is, once again, pure here-say. He was incredibly popular with the fans and previously the team captain so you'd imagine he was well thought of by the manager too. Perhaps he wanted to leave when we came calling because we are who we are, perhaps we offered him too much money he couldn't turn it down. Perhaps being out for the majority of the season coupled with a new opportunity in a slightly less taxing league that he is confident playing in with a team heavily tipped for promotion was just what he wanted at that point in his career. You're passing off opinion as fact which, again, doesn't make you right. No one knows the truth.

Finally, your opinion on Clark and Okore being 'unproven' and better than Elphick and Chester is pure hogwash and there is actual evidence to the contrary. Clark has had hundreds of chances, 134 to be precise (if Wiki is to be believed), and was a main contributor of the team that took us down last season. Okore has had opportunities too, in between long bouts of injuries, and has not only made a number of dreadful mistakes (as has Clark) but he had the gall to talk to the press in order to engineer a move away right when we needed everyone's head in the game fighting for Premier League survival. Elphick and Chester want to be here and have already looked more comfortable and professional than Clark and Okore. They will take time to bed in, as will the other new signings, but I can't blame most fans for being confident that they will prove to be better for us than two players who have proved to be wastes of spaces in recent seasons.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Ginko

[alreadyexists]

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Edited September 3, 2016 by alreadyexists

[Mjvilla]

I've already received warning points for this @Michael118 so lets leave it. I'll come back to you in 6 months and say you were wrong about Gil, bacuna, kozak and Agbonlahor, Clark and Okore I hope. Love you michael118 x

[Michael118]

21 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

I've already received warning points for this @Michael118 so lets leave it. I'll come back to you in 6 months and say you were wrong about Gil, bacuna, kozak and Agbonlahor, Clark and Okore I hope. Love you michael118 x

I doubt anything will prove to be conclusive about Agbonlahor and maybe Kozak and Okore, but we'll see about the others. Love you as well. xx

[Mjvilla]

Just now, Michael118 said:

I doubt anything will prove to be conclusive about Agbonlahor and maybe Kozak and Okore, but we'll see about the others. Love you as well. xx

Isn't it nice being friends?! 

[Michael118]

@Ginko I'll reply to your post when I get a chance. Really busy at the moment.

[Dr_Pangloss]

17 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Subs - Steer, Amavi, Baker, Adomah, Westwood, Kodjia, Bacuna

Adomah and Kodjia would have to earn their places for me assuming everyone is fit. It's a long old season, form will come and go for many. What I am delighted about is how deep the bench looks. There's still not much beyond that 18, but it's a darn sight better than it was even a week ago. 

Edit - it has only just dawned on me I initially left Bacuna out. I would prefer him to Green on the bench, not just because he has played well so far this season but because of his added versatility and unpredictability. 

Don't think so. Gestede has been shite outside of one game. Kodjia based on his goals last season and the money spent on him has to go immediately into the first team with Gestede dropping to the bench and being little more than back up/ plan B option for the remainder of the season.

[Michael118]

2 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Isn't it nice being friends?! 

Sure is.

[Vive_La_Villa]

10 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

Sure is.

Michael I think you're basing you ropinions of how Gabby used to play around 5 years ago and Kozak before he broke his leg.  Regarding Gabby lets just say he was looking fit and sharp his attitude is really bad for the club and younger players. This is a lifelong Villa fan that has been at the club since day one yet strolled around in games last season when we needed him to lead by example. He also seems consent on taking his salary and playing in reserves rather than proving himself at another club for a season. The guy doesn't give a shit and rightly should never play for us again. 

As for Kozak I think this will be his last season at the club. He has had horrendous luck with injuries which is a shame as we generally seemed to get better results when he played which is no coincidence. I don't think he will ever be able to sustain a run of fitness. Some players are just unlucky that way. 

[mikeyp102]

So my thoughts on the squad.

Gollini has potential but maybe could have got a stronger back up keeper to push him or step in if needed.

Defence - Improved a lot for me. Chester and Elphick look like they will be good at this level. De Leat haven't seen much of but remember him being poor at Norwich. However, that was a long time ago and may have improved. Read he is better going forward than back same as Amavi so maybe we'll play a back three at times which I wouldn't be against. Think we probably needed one more CB but can't be too picky.

Midfield (Grealish Green and Adomah not in this area as will class as forwards). Still weakest area of squad for me. Tish looks to have potential but is still raw. Jedinak will add good leadership in the team which is needed, but I'm not convinced by how good a player he actually is. Westwood, Gards and Bacuna meh and Lyden hasn't been fancied yet. Needed more quality in there but think that'll come next window or summer.

Forwards, very impressed with. Brought in players who have scored lots of goals in this league, added to the fact I think Ayew and Gestede will score plenty. Grealish has looked good this season and will provide a spark. Don't know much about Adomah but he is a different option to shake things up.

Overall I think the squad is easily good enough to good up and think we will in second. In most games this season we have outplayed the opposition and should've been out of sight by half time. Once we get the strikers gelling we will put teams to the sword and once we are 2-0 up I can't see teams coming back at us (see Rotherham). It will be interesting to see how we react if we go behind though.

[Mjvilla]

AS the speculation thread is closed... Thought I'd put his in here. Momo sissoko is available on a free, would anyone take him on a free as an option in the centre of our midfield? I know flamini is available but I get the feeling he will get a contract in a top division somewhere, perhaps serie A.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Mjvilla

[sir_gary_cahill]

5 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

AS the speculation thread is closed... Thought I'd put his in here. Momo sissoko is available on a free, would anyone take him on a free as an option in the centre of our midfield? I know flamini is available but I get the feeling he will get a contract in a top division somewhere, perhaps serie A.

The ex Liverpool player? I'd take him

[skarroki]

I can't help but feeling we are light in every area of the squad, except full backs and forwards. I think this is partly down to the fact that I'm used to us having such a big premier league squad that having trimmed it down a lot it looks a little too thin. However, lots of teams, like Burnley for example, have operated in this league with a small squad quite successfully. Di Matteo said in his first interview he wanted about 8 players in and to make sure the squad was smaller than before. So a big tick from me, just need to get through a couple of months to feel reassured we have enough options.

 

I'd like to add that I'm very happy with the amount of young players being sent out on loan. It's never really happened at Villa but many people have said in the past our younger players should be out getting experience. Think players like Toner could be pushing for a place in the starting XI if he performs well in league 1. 

[Grasshopper]

I think out of our 1st 11ers

gollini RDL Chester Elphick Baker Ally Amavi Bacuna Jedinak Tshibola Adomuah Ayew Grealish McScore Kodjia

we have a team that should/could beat most Ch teams

injuries & suspensions could find us out playing Sat Wed Sat Wed a few weeks running

So as a squad I think its tough to expect top 6

Dr X has proved one thing, money is not a concern, and even if we are only in with slight chance of the playoffs by Xmas (which imho we should be) he will go all out in the Jan window to get in who is needed whatever the cost.

He's already stated that he knows of AfCONs consequences and will buy/loan to cover.

Dr X is going for it and I really hope we go up. If not it'll be harder with 3 moneypowered PL clubs coming down next season. He'll want to compete and no doubt he will imho.

If we dont go up within 2 yrs I really dont know where that will leave us Playerwise manager and financially (ffp). More importantly Dr X POV at that moment in time.

If we are in PL in due time, I can image Dr X going for it financially again. My only concern is how long will he tollerate "failure" ( no promotion to PL or Promotion->Relegation back to Ch) till he says "Ok, fail, sell or let it run its own course"