Chindie Posted March 21, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 21, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I was one of those idiots and whatever happens I still believe in the long run it will work out for the best for the country. But I accept it was a mistake. I voted remain, just. But I don't think what you did at the time was a "mistake". IF you voted based on what you knew, then the fault lies with, perhaps, the information you had. Both sides lied. Leave also cheated the law and there is also evidence of foreign (Russian) interference. Dunno if it affected the overall result, of course, but it must have affected some voters. If people vote with what they believe, plus their own values, then it's not a "mistake" in a personal sense. That the result or consequences turn out to be radically different to what was promised, the mistake and the blame absolutely lies with the "forecasters" and liars who lied to us. Leave lied massively. As we now know, what they said, and the reality are a chasm apart. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 21, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2019 Extension only to May 22nd, due to European Parliament elections May is set against holding. Also her meeting was 90 minutes long with other leaders and seemingly, unsurprisingly, she doesn't appear to have said much and was evasive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, blandy said: I voted remain, just. But I don't think what you did at the time was a "mistake". IF you voted based on what you knew, then the fault lies with, perhaps, the information you had. Both sides lied. Leave also cheated the law and there is also evidence of foreign (Russian) interference. Dunno if it affected the overall result, of course, but it must have affected some voters. If people vote with what they believe, plus their own values, then it's not a "mistake" in a personal sense. That the result or consequences turn out to be radically different to what was promised, the mistake and the blame absolutely lies with the "forecasters" and liars who lied to us. Leave lied massively. As we now know, what they said, and the reality are a chasm apart. I think it was a mistake for voting for something I didn’t understand. If I had the chance again I wouldn’t have voted. But i guess it’s easy to say that with hindsight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 21, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2019 Downing Street - 'Someone, go do something dramatic' Gavin Wilkinson - 'Hold my beer' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 58 minutes ago, blandy said: I voted remain, just. But I don't think what you did at the time was a "mistake". IF you voted based on what you knew, then the fault lies with, perhaps, the information you had. Both sides lied. Leave also cheated the law and there is also evidence of foreign (Russian) interference. Dunno if it affected the overall result, of course, but it must have affected some voters. If people vote with what they believe, plus their own values, then it's not a "mistake" in a personal sense. That the result or consequences turn out to be radically different to what was promised, the mistake and the blame absolutely lies with the "forecasters" and liars who lied to us. Leave lied massively. As we now know, what they said, and the reality are a chasm apart. I also voted remain. Not through any love of the way the EU operates. I don't have sufficient faith in UK politicians and the EU does act as something of a brake on the swivel eyed right wing that so many mysteriously vote for. I basically didn't have faith in what leaving would leave us with. Turns out I'm some sort of psychic genius. Truth is, if Leave hadn''t been a circus of clearings, if leave hadn't been Johnson, Redwood, Mogg, Farage, Fox and their ilk, I probably could have been persuaded. It was their endorsement of it that made me suspicious of where we were heading. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Chindie said: Downing Street - 'Someone, go do something dramatic' Gavin Wilkinson - 'Hold my beer' strap May to a rocket and launch it into the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, blandy said: I voted remain, just. But I don't think what you did at the time was a "mistake". IF you voted based on what you knew, then the fault lies with, perhaps, the information you had. Both sides lied. Leave also cheated the law and there is also evidence of foreign (Russian) interference. Dunno if it affected the overall result, of course, but it must have affected some voters. If people vote with what they believe, plus their own values, then it's not a "mistake" in a personal sense. That the result or consequences turn out to be radically different to what was promised, the mistake and the blame absolutely lies with the "forecasters" and liars who lied to us. Leave lied massively. As we now know, what they said, and the reality are a chasm apart. Obviously I'm not directly comparing the 2 but how do you view something like this alleged foreign interference versus celebs going on twitter and imposing their views on all their followers and asking them to sign an online petition for revoking the treaty .. What right for example does prostitute user Hugh Grant have to tell people what they should think ? The people decrying foreign influence seem to use it as a case of oh they influenced the uneducated , but influences are all around us and not all of them poison Ex spy's in Salisbury right under our noses . It's no secret I voted leave , a few times in the campaign I switched to the inclined to vote remain camp , but ultimately this was a one shot deal ( Cameron's words) and I thought done properly , leaving was a good move , but I'm sure you can see the flaw in that last sentence already !! There are a few posters on here who have expressed concerns about what the EU is and what it does does but voted remain " because " , it suggests given the right sort of Brexit they could have been swayed by it ..of course the vote didn't offer what sort of Brexit it would be , nor the shambles that our politicians would make of it .. if i had to vote again next week , I couldn't honestly tell you how I'd vote , if I'd even bother voting ..... but , given sufficient time passing unless the EU has changed "from the inside" as people keep claiming they wish it to do , I'd probably vote for leave again .. though I'd expect a clear thought out plan before any second vote ( yeah I know) Not directly aimed at you , but as you've mentioned it . The "values" line used to get trotted out in the Bolitics threads as an insult that thinly implied anyone who puts their X in a Tory box should wear a swastika and has no moral compass or values ..its complete bollocks , I bet Fred West voted labour , would have got a Prius by now and also voted remain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Sky News is suggesting that they've got sod all from May, have decided that the WA probably won't apss and are deciding what to do on that basis. The latest thoughts are that they'll offer the May extension regardless of what happens in relation to a 3rd MV in the attempt to stave off no deal or a longer extension if the WA passes at some other time before that May date. I may have got some of that wrong. I was trying to type as they were commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: how do you view something like this alleged foreign interference versus celebs going on twitter and imposing their views on all their followers Are you struggling to distinguish between opaque influence of foreign states (perhaps often not particularly friendly but certainly often biased in favour of their own nation's interests) and seemingly very obvious influences of UK citizens on people who might listen to them? 5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: What right for example does prostitute user Hugh Grant have to tell people what they should think ? None. No one has the right to tell anyone else what to think. Everyone has the right to give their opinion - I'd even include Don Trump Jr. writing an op-ed, though I'd question the integrity of the newspaper, its editorial team and owners who thought it was appropriate. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Seeing May 7th on the table. Takes accidental No Deal out of the equation. I just don't see MV3 passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Call me mad, but I have just spent £100 on long lasting food in a shop. If we crash out, the shit hits the **** fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 21, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2019 38 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Obviously I'm not directly comparing the 2 but how do you view something like this alleged foreign interference versus celebs going on twitter and imposing their views on all their followers and asking them to sign an online petition for revoking the treaty .. I view genuine British (or for that matter any other national) people posting their personal conscience views on twitter as part of the mass of individual citizen/social media background. It has no effect on me, I don't go with celeb culture or adherence or whatever. It's all crud to me. Fred Smith's view on Brexit is just that. Some bod's view. However, where "bots" and fake accounts under the direction of a foreign power swamp targeted messages, tailored to influence certain parts of society all over Facehole or twitter or Instagrams or wherever, I view that differently. Where foreign funding (which is illegal) is used to help political campaigns, where people are (attempted to be) manipulated by foreign state actors, it's wholly wrong, wholly undemocratic and basically a hostile act, as it is concealed. Obama or Putin saying "I agree with/disagree with xyz is open and clear, and we know who is saying it. Where "people" who are false identities claiming to be a proud brit, or Leanne in Spain or Tom in Brum are actually Russian (say) people in a massive cyber centre in Volgograd or wherever, this is different in a big way from Hugh Grant being in favour of a second referendum or whatever. As you asked. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 10 hours ago, chrisp65 said: When it gets to 17.5 million it's of interest. 10 hours ago, desensitized43 said: How very simplistic...It must be nice to live in your world 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 36 minutes ago, snowychap said: Are you struggling to distinguish between opaque influence of foreign states I opened my post with the words “obviously im not directly comparing the 2” it was more a comment around “influence” I was making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Who knew Hugh Grant carried so much influence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Who knew Hugh Grant carried so much influence Fans of Paddington 2! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 This is not great: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Especially as we should judge him for getting off with a prostitute 20 odd years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts