Chindie Posted October 21, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2018 Also that march yesterday was really something, wasn't it. It seems to have the conmen and conned a bit rattled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 It was an impressive number. As the leadership of neither party wants to go anywhere near a second referendum it's difficult to see how one happens. I see a stitch up where some form of awful deal limps over the line with the support of just enough of Labour. The hope being from Corbyn, that the country will then be in such a catastrophic collpase, they'll consider a Labour government. I'm presuming Corbyn and McDonell were nowehere near that march yesterday? I believe this week's phrase is 'shit show'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 22 hours ago, bickster said: You can certainly sneer at this retard. Definitely willfully thick. He wants to return to the British Empire whilst having a pint with a Russian agent As political agendas go, 'let's get back to being the British Empire' is certainly lacking nothing in ambition, but I would be interested to hear any thoughts of his on how to get from here to there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 The authorities weren't expecting those numbers. They must have been on tenterhooks hoping it didn't kick off. We were 40 metres from where we started when we due in Parliament Square. It got crazy packed on Whitehall when they closed Parliament Square because of the weight of numbers. Some the rat run escapes down the sides were sealed by construction and the authorities. The numbers kept flooding in, it got very tight. There were children and seniors everywhere. Lots of seniors! Fair play. Many sore ankles from wayward wheelchair driving Got a little past Downing St, then teamed up with an old lady to escape. She'd carve a path through the packs of old folk then it was me for the less frail, a snake of people behind us. It took an hour to get back to Trafalgar Square, which I guess must have filled up too? They were still flooding in 2 hours after we got halted. Saw no troglodytes. Even booing outside Downing St was sporadic. Not blind anger, they've seen through much of the billionaire media distraction. Peak edgy was stickers on a door next to Downing St. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 A big well done to everyone who went. At the very least, they won't have to sheepishly look at their feet when their grandkids ask them what they did at the time to try and stop the country being broken apart The other side held a demonstration in Manchester as well which had a pretty decent turnout. I make it around twenty-five, assuming none are plain clothes policemen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 21, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 21, 2018 1 hour ago, ml1dch said: A big well done to everyone who went. At the very least, they won't have to sheepishly look at their feet when their grandkids ask them what they did at the time to try and stop the country being broken apart The other side held a demonstration in Manchester as well which had a pretty decent turnout. I make it around twenty-five, assuming none are plain clothes policemen. That’s not the “other side” that’s the laughable EDL march in Manchester (see UKIP topic yesterday) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 39 minutes ago, bickster said: That’s not the “other side” that’s the laughable EDL march in Manchester (see UKIP topic yesterday) I know. My words were deliberately chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted October 21, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2018 On 20/10/2018 at 17:08, bickster said: You can certainly sneer at this retard. Definitely willfully thick. He wants to return to the British Empire whilst having a pint with a Russian agent "Let's get back to being the British Empire" 'kin 'ell - words fail me - I mean how, when does he... urgh words fail me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 21, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2018 This is just wrong. And deeply sinister. The police should not be sitting on cases or actively delaying them for 'political sensitivities'. Banana republic stuff. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I honestly think most people in this country would now wish to remain in the EU, now that the awful prospect is in sight. The question now, is will those in power grant the British people the final say ,or does selfish personal interest and ambition override fairness and common sense. Unfortunately with the current shitshower in control, I fear it will. Hope I’m wrong, and reason prevails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 21, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2018 I still don't think a second referendum is going to happen, and even if it did I would stick money on the result coming back as leave or take whatever shitty deal May musters in the best instance. Unfortunately Westminster isn't acting in the best interests of the country, and hasn't for quite some time. May is entirely driven by surviving to tomorrow, and unless a miracle happens her survival requires her to fondle the bollocks of the particularly swivel eyed wing of the party, as well as being terrified of the referendum result. Country's ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Chindie said: I still don't think a second referendum is going to happen, and even if it did I would stick money on the result coming back as leave or take whatever shitty deal May musters in the best instance. I agree. The campaign would also likely be shit as the campaign that led up to the last referendum. It could possibly be worse. Also, if one thought that a referendum was the wrong way to sort something out first time around, why would it be a satisfactory method a second time? Edited October 21, 2018 by snowychap 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 21, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, snowychap said: I agree. The campaign would also likely be shit as the campaign that led up to the last referendum. It could probably be worse. Also, if one thought that a referendum was the wrong way to sort something out first time around, why would it be better the second time? Exactly. All the same problems of the last time still exist. The only thing that has changed is a little more talk of the actuality of what will happen. Unfortunately that's only relevant to those willing to listen. And unfortunately there's still a significant chunk of the public that simply disbelieves the reality of things. And there's still MPs and cabinet members pushing lies. And so on. It'd be another shitshow. The argument for using another wrong to right the last one is the peculiar nature of a referendum. The only get out to overruling it with legitimacy is to run it again. I can understand that but I don't agree with it - they're horrible instruments and parliament should be strong enough to defy them if needs be. Referendums are a shitty nuclear option in a democracy and whenever they get used for anything with actual weight to it they potentially fundamentally shift the landscape. With Brexit and the current parliament, that's magnified given how toxic a subject it has become and how feeble our current MPs are. Another referendum is seemingly the only hope. It's a forlorn one mind. The latest Remainiacs podcast this week was an interesting listen, with then 'wargaming' a second referendum. Particularly sobering was the question 'of it happens but it's the dreaded take it or leave it choice, what do Remainers do?' the answer being effectively no deal is so catastrophic that the only sane answer is the lesser of 2 evils, even if only marginally better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 2 hours ago, TheAuthority said: "Let's get back to being the British Empire" 'kin 'ell - words fail me - I mean how, when does he... urgh words fail me Tbf we could start by invading countries like Palau who couldn’t really fight back. We’d have an empire of sorts if we just invade people who have no means to defend themselves. Just like in the good old days. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 10 hours ago, snowychap said: Also, if one thought that a referendum was the wrong way to sort something out first time around, why would it be a satisfactory method a second time? To stop the country going down the pan. Any ideas that have a better chance of success? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Xann said: To stop the country going down the pan. Any ideas that have a better chance of success? What stops the country from going down the pan - a second vote or a decision to cease leaving the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 22, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, snowychap said: What stops the country from going down the pan - a second vote or a decision to cease leaving the EU? The later will never happen without the former in the current political climate. It would be absolutely great if it did but very few politicians have the testicles required 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 minute ago, snowychap said: What stops the country from going down the pan - a second vote or a decision to cease leaving the EU? She can't win. The country or the Tories lose? She's not dense and she looks at official figures we're no longer allowed to see. She defines her legacy on her choice of sword to fall on. She's very unlikely to halt Brexit without a majority vote the other way. Under those conditions, it gives her the chance to do the right thing. Then we hope her vanity gets the better of her, her peers and her husband's greed. If during her deliberations she discovers a secret well of decency hidden away deep, deep inside her? It would be an easy decision. It shafts her party though, not just on the surface. Contributions from tax evaders keep them afloat - But we leave and the country tanks? They're f***ed again and she's screwed the country over for a couple of year stay of execution for the Tory party. What a mess. David Cameron, take a bow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, Xann said: She's very unlikely to halt Brexit without a majority vote the other way. What if the turnout is lower than the last referendum? What question is to be asked? Yes/No? No deal/Negotiated deal (would require negotiations to have finished)/Remain? Negotiated deal/No deal? When does the vote take place? If you imagine how vitriolic things are now what do you think it would be like in the next referendum campaign and after? What happens if Remain isn't an option or, if it is, it fails to gain a majority? The people who marched yesterday won't be accepting of that. What happens if Remain does get a majority? The people who still maintain that they want to leave the EU won't be accepting of that. 39 minutes ago, Xann said: What a mess. It is a right old mess but I don't see that a second referendum is any way out of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 We should be cancelling the entire thing. A sensible parliament and sensible electorate would have stopped the entire thing a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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