The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[wazzap24]

When does all the good stuff start getting announced?

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

When does all the good stuff start getting announced?

At the current rate. 2045

[Chindie]

Depends on your viewpoint.

Remain? Never.

Leave? 21 months ago, and that's the end of the story.

[bickster]

Just released, plans for the Irish Border post brexit

[chrisp65]

3 hours ago, bickster said:

Just released, plans for the Irish Border post brexit

and you just know it'll be built by a French company with the backing of Chinese money

 

[Xann]

[Xann]

Quote

 

The British public is already scared about a trade deal with the US. They don’t care for chickens washed in chlorine, nor for cows stuffed with hormones. But this week, an epic US document setting out the barriers to foreign trade it would like to remove shows that these concerns are just the tip of the iceberg.

Not only do the 400-plus pages detail a stomach-churning list of foods the US would like to import into Britain – more pus in your milk and more pesticides on your vegetables – but they also uncover the US government’s distaste for the way the EU regulates big pharmaceutical corporations generally. The US would certainly ask us to strip away these regulations as part of a post-Brexit trade deal, which in turn poses a direct threat to NHS budgets and our ability to get our hands on life-saving medicines in the future.

So a US trade deal could be both bad for our health, and bad for helping us get better again. In its report, the US government is clear that it hates the EU’s food policies. It wants to export chlorinated chicken (meat rinsed in antimicrobial wash as an alternative to keeping and killing animals in healthy conditions), and meat from animals stuffed with hormones, steroids, ractopamine, and endocrine disrupters (chemicals that mess with animals’ hormones and can cause cancer and birth defects).

The list goes on, with the US unhappy about the EU’s “cautious” approach to approving genetically modified goods, chemical flavourings in food and the amount of pesticide residue allowed in fruits and nuts. They even think the amount of “somatic cells” allowed in milk in the EU is too restrictive. The US allows more white blood cells in milk than anywhere else in the world, even though this often indicates infection in the cow.

The US argues that this is a matter of customer choice. But that’s disingenuous, both because importing this food will inevitably drive down standards here, and because, as we discover in the document, the US dislikes the sort of food labelling that allows the consumer to make an informed choice.

If all of this is starting to make you feel queasy, it gets worse when you look at the “treatment” side of the equation. Medicines in the US are vastly more expensive than they are in Europe. So it’s little wonder that the US, batting for big pharma, disagrees with the (still very moderate) limitations many European governments place on pharmaceutical corporations.

 

Grauniad

[Chindie]

Bloody Remoaners.

[Xann]

Quote

 

Green Brexit unlikely despite government claims, report concludes

Environmental standards are at risk across the board, from wildlife and habitats to water and air quality, a risk assessment shows

Government promises of a green Brexit have been cast into doubt by a new study that warns of declining protections for water, birds and habitats once Britain leaves the European Union.

The risk assessment – commissioned by Friends of the Earth – found standards are likely to weaken in every sector of environment policy, from chemicals and food safety to air pollution and climate, though the extent of deterioration will depend on the departure deal.

The environment secretary, Michael Gove – a fervent Brexiter – insists the UK will be a global “champion” of green policies after the split on 29 March 2019, but many fear a bonfire of regulations that would result in lower government spending on air and water quality, allowing businesses to cut corners. To avoid a race to the bottom, the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has insisted on a “non-regression” clause in any future trade deal, tying the UK to the bloc’s high standards after Brexit.

The new study underscores the need for caution. Academics from Sheffield University, Queen’s University Belfast and the University of East Anglia assessed the post-Brexit risk of governance gaps, coordination problems between Westminster and devolved nations (Scotland, Wales and North Ireland) and the differing levels of protection between strong EU regulations and weaker international commitments by the UK.

The researchers considered 15 environment policies under five different scenarios, ranging from a Norwegian-style arrangement that would keep the UK close to the EU, to a chaotic no-deal scenario that would mark a total separation.

In every case, they predicted a “very high risk” to birds and habitats. Current EU rules – notably Natura 2000 and the habitats directive – oblige member states to set aside conservation areas for wild species. Before these directives, protected sites in the UK were being lost at a rate of 15% a year, but this declined to just 1% a year afterwards, according to the RSPB. Current farming minister George Eustice, however, has said the “spirit crushing” rules would go after Brexit. The authors of the risk assessment also cite comments by Gove and foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, calling for the directives to be reformed, rescinded or weakened...

... The government claims its recently announced 25-year plan for the environment gives Britain some of the most progressive policies in the world, but the study’s authors say it replaces concrete regulations with vague aspirations.

“The 25-year plan was depressing and concerning,” said Prof Charlotte Burns at Sheffield University. “If the government is not tied down to strict standards, we will see waning investment in the environment and less capacity for NGOs to challenge what they do in the courts.”

 

Grauniad

[ml1dch]

http://the.48andbeyond.co.uk/2018/02/why-brexit-will-devastate-uk.html?m=1

A bit of a sad read. 

Quote

 

I know very little about the workings of the common agricultural policy, fishing waters, Erasmus, Euratom and 1,000 other things. I do know more than almost every politician and media writer about business, and specifically manufacturing and exporting. Because I know the facts, not the headlines, I have known since long before June 2016, that if vote leave won, our business would be finished. It is not just our business, but many more in manufacturing and its supply chains, working class jobs, factory jobs, office jobs, technical jobs from servicing machinery to programming robots and more. While you read consider the industrial units found in every UK town, and often village, along with the huge car plants in our cities.

 

Our business, which I shall call RIP, produces specialist sports products, following an idea my partner had many years ago. It started small, with 3 product lines produced by a nearby factory. Every penny made was reinvested and we grew and grew, taking export opportunities as they arose from day one. We now have an industrial unit with a £200k mortgage, produce all our own products, 10 staff, £800k turnover, £500k exports, three quarters of which are to the EU, annual profit £10-£70k, typical tax paid per year: £18k business rates, £48k PAYE, £38K VAT, £10K corporation tax. I think that’s quite a good contribution to the economy for a girl who left school on her 16th birthday, and a guy who was thrown out long before. We are not heroes, just a tiny, solid, part of the British economy. We try to be good employers, 16-year-old apprentices start on £5.50 with paid formal training, and the average pay on the production team is over £10 hour after 6 months – keep in mind this is low skilled work, and we are a small business. It has been a great privilege to give opportunities to people, who have ability but have never had a chance before.

So, here is why Brexit is such a spoiler:

We process around 40 orders a week, retail, wholesale the lot, order value average £400, between £5 - £20,000. We are good at what we do, and compete with Chinese made, American marketed products. I can process and ship around 20 UK or EU orders per day, because an EU order takes about 45 seconds longer than a UK one (declare value from the invoice I have to make anyway, email customer tracking number). Shipping to the EU costs £13 for a box up to 35 kilos (yes, it’s that cheap), so no issue to recover from customers. Once a month I need ½ hour to send ESCL and Intrastat reports to HMRC as part of EU export. BUT the minute I go to countries outside the EU, but in the customs union i.e. Norway, Switzerland etc, I must: produce 5 extra invoice copies, with a manufacturers declaration, harmonised commodity code (to be fair we do that anyway now in our product data), and manually sign them = plus 20 minutes, and time is money. Then I must pay a £25 customs clearance fee – so I can no longer split shipments, and be flexible for the customer, because that fee is per shipment, regardless if 1 box or 20. Then if an order for Switzerland is over £6k, I must apply for for SD11 (I think) from the Chamber of Commerce, wait to receive it and complete it = add 2 weeks for form to come back and at least 2 hours (profit slips away).

 

For non-EU shipments same story with 5 x customs invoice (10 for UPS, sorry guys but you do lose them all the time); and a much longer process for booking shipment – for larger waiting for quotes for air versus ocean shipment (not an issue for Europe, goes on lorry through tunnel), and also supply packing lists, airway bill or bill of lading copies to receiver and shipper, for China and Australia I must produce declarations regarding “no wood” packaging. There is frequently additional work to check the package status, provide extra documents or information etc – all of this is not profitable. We instinctively prefer EU work to non-EU.

 

There is a further issue of business culture – and please excuse the generalisations here but they are my experience of many years: the huge majority of our European (rather than EU) customers have the same business practices and ethics to us, we all know where we stand and what to expect in terms of communication, documents, product quality and payment, it’s all good business. Whereas, Canada and Australia are so laid back they can barely be bothered to check a delivery address or product description leading to extra admin work later down the line. America to is split, they either are too laid back as previous, or in complete document over drive, demanding huge lists of procedures on labelling boxes, copying all correspondence to 6 recipients, and delaying shipment for confirmation from third parties, the later is the worst in that the administration end up exceeding the product value, on all but the largest orders. The Chinese work entirely to their own tune, always on holiday, understand English perfectly when it suits them and not at all when it doesn’t. I recently sent goods where they failed to tell both me and the freight company that the delivery was to a bonded warehouse (generated additional £1k charges for bonded lorry, this is all something to do with not going through customs!). I have been asked for a refund due to quality 2 years after an order was sent to a Chinese factory – but ask anyone who imports from China and they do not do refunds.

 

Emerging markets are of little use to us. Europe shares our weather, our culture and our sports habits, sports safety equipment from the UK is unlikely to boom in India in 2019 – let’s be straight, health and safety in the workplace is almost non-existent there, so unlikely to be massive in leisure.

 

There is demand in Brazil – but here is another fact you won’t hear from Liam Fox – Brazil imposes 100% import duty on all imports to protect its own producers and they are hardly likely to drop that policy just for the UK because it chose Brexit.

 

Then there is just the plain reality – EU countries deal with each other because they are close, so it is quick, cheap and easy to do business. It will never be cheap to get goods to New Zealand – tariffs are not the big issue here (I often wonder about the lamb, although someone recently told me it is because their volumes are huge).

 

I could tell you much more, but you must be super bored by now. I get so frustrated hearing politicians discuss these issue – they do not understand my reality, just as I do not understand theirs (you know porn on computer, wasn’t mine, where is bar no.5 in house of commons, etc. )

 

To conclude – Brexit will finish us because we will lose our smaller value orders due to the increased customs costs: even with Norway style deal an extra £25 on £50 or £100 order is a deal breaker.

 

Then, we will lose more business as costs increase and shipping flexibility to EU reduces. We need at least 1 skilled staff person at £30k per annum to process the exports. The combined effect along with new pension costs, increased business rates and higher input costs due to falling £, put us in a loss making position – as a manufacturer competing against China we are already highly efficient, there is nowhere else to claw it back.

 

This leaves us closed (why let the loses add up and up), with £200k due on an industrial property, and you may wonder, why not let it or sell it – which we will gladly, but the nearest unit to us has been on the market for 6 years, and that is a long time to find the mortgage payments, plus business rates which must be paid after 6 months empty.

 

At the end of 2015 we had become confident enough in the business to look for a new home – with 2 toilets as our 2 girls approach teenage, but that is off the cards now, and it does make me a little down that this “dream” can’t happen, when we have worked 60 hours a week, with babies on laps and 2 days maternity leave for it to be snatched away by Brexit. I am however much more disappointed about the perhaps unintended, but in my opinion foreseeable, emboldened confidence Brexit has given to the fascists in the UK.

 

Make no mistake, the single market is a beautiful thing for business and allows you to easily expand your business abroad. Those produce regulations you must comply with are the CE scheme – which has effectively replaced the British Kite marking scheme, and let’s face it, we like our electrical goods, children’s toys and safety equipment made to a standard it does not kill or injure us, and I can assure you the UK Trading Standards does not have the resources to enforce the law now, let alone without the back up of EU agencies.

 

If you voted Leave, I do not disrespect your reasons, but I doubt Brexit reality will deliver what you wanted. I hope you can spare a thought for me and the team at RIP, because we are normal hard-working people, who already know what it means to go without.

 

The sad irony of spending 18 months with a sinking feeling in my stomach, of wondering when to tell my staff their jobs are finite, of whether it is viable to relocate to another EU country while my kids are mid GCSE and a thousand other concerns, is that if Brexit is cancelled tomorrow, my heart has gone from the business and it will be a relief to walk away into the penniless unknown

 

 

Still, I'm sure that there's a good reason to do all this. Somebody must think of one eventually.

[snowychap]

I see De La Rue have dropped their appeal on the passport contract thing.

[a m ole]

17 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I see De La Rue have dropped their appeal on the passport contract thing.

Good, can’t have a French named business making our British passports

[HanoiVillan]

I think I read they're also putting out a profit warning. 

[Stevo985]

Had my passport with me at work this week as had to send a copy to someone.

A woman saw me scanning it and said

"Oh I bet you're looking forward to getting a blue passport!"

 

She seemed genuinely shocked when I told her I didn't care what colour it was.
I forget sometimes that there are plenty of people who genuinely believe that matters.

[HanoiVillan]

45 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Had my passport with me at work this week as had to send a copy to someone.

A woman saw me scanning it and said

"Oh I bet you're looking forward to getting a blue passport!"

 

She seemed genuinely shocked when I told her I didn't care what colour it was.
I forget sometimes that there are plenty of people who genuinely believe that matters.

Bizarre. 

[bickster]

 

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Had my passport with me at work this week as had to send a copy to someone.

A woman saw me scanning it and said

"Oh I bet you're looking forward to getting a blue passport!"

 

She seemed genuinely shocked when I told her I didn't care what colour it was.
I forget sometimes that there are plenty of people who genuinely believe that matters.

I'd have said no, we'll have purple ones again by the time I need to renew mine (9 years left on mine)

[Stevo985]

I stopped short of a rant about how stupid wanting a blue passport is.

I did drop in that I was applying for my Irish passport though, and that will be purple too!

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Had my passport with me at work this week as had to send a copy to someone.

Can I have some of the Gold you get from Nigeria ? 

[Stevo985]

4 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Can I have some of the Gold you get from Nigeria ? 

You’ll have to ask Princess Halimatu if she’ll share it with you too

[bickster]

Govt loses vote in the Lords over hard Brexit by a huge 123 votes. Ouch!