a m ole Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I proposed a Brexit only for people that want it a while back in this thread. Is that what’s happening? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 2, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 2, 2018 Schrodingers border 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 19 hours ago, a m ole said: I proposed a Brexit only for people that want it a while back in this thread. Is that what’s happening? In a way, people will need to identify as "Brexit Fluid" depending on where they are in the border crossing process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Article quoted here is super reassuring: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) On 09/10/2017 at 23:15, ml1dch said: Well you tell me what I have wrong and have misunderstood from the below. Preferably with reference to a precedent or a law, rather than a wishy-washy "business won't stand for it". (apologies, this might turn out to be quite long) We fall outside the Single Market, and agree to trade on WTO rules, as some nutters think we should. The EU is now legally obligated to treat us as a third country. We have no formal agreement, so they cannot treat our imports any differently to those coming in from anywhere else that they have no agreement with, or else they are in breach of the rules. Most Favoured Nation rules state that you cannot offer any special treatment (positive or negative) without applying the same to everyone else. That is our new trading relationship, and they have no choice but to adhere to those rules. So, the first truck on the ferry to Calais rolls off and is now stopped for inspection. It has to be. It's treated the same as if it were coming in from Bangladesh or Guatemala with produce for the EU market. If it's treated any differently, every other member lodges a complaint with the WTO. Currently, 100% of live animals and 20% of processed animal and plant shipments need to be tested to check that they are at the required standard before they can enter the EU according to the current EU regulations. That truck waits there until the goods have been cleared. As do several of the trucks behind it. After the fifth ferry of the day, there is no more holding space for these lorries. You're well-travelled, you've seen Calais. The French will have little interest in breaking the law just to make English lorry drivers' lives easier, so they stop allowing lorries off the boat, and shortly after lorries are no longer loaded at Dover. A tailback out of the port grows longer and longer, and the roads outside are gridlocked within a day. So, this part just screws our businesses. It's our stuff not getting to Europe. But those lorries aren't just dropping stuff and coming back empty. That would be a terrible way to run a haulage company. The lorries trapped at Dover are the same ones who aren't picking up all the stuff that we're used to getting from the continent. At last estimate, 30% of our food comes from the EU, the vast majority of that through Dover (not that the situation is likely to be different elsewhere, Dover is just the busiest and most bottle-necked) You saw what happened with the fuel strike in 2007. As soon as there's a sniff of the above, panic buying will set in. The shelves will empty and in that scenario I'd expect riots to follow before too long. There's a whole other essay to be written of legal stuff that complicates us actually importing food under WTO rules, but the above covers the physical and logistical reasons why a problem might arise. Government playing catch-up as usual. Edit: reading back, I got at least one thing wrong. Animal produce wouldn't just sit and wait until it had cleared. Calais doesn't have the relevant infrastructure, so they'd be turned back and told to take a boat to Dunkirk or Le Havre, which do. Edited June 3, 2018 by ml1dch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 3, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 3, 2018 Apart from a few hard core Moggies, has anyone heard anyone of any significance say No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal recently, the phrase appears to have been shelved from the Brexit Rhetoric Manual Thats because its obviously a load of complete and utter bollocks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 If you listen to the Telegraph podcast or regularly read Conservative Home (masochistically, both of which I do), it's still a pretty solid mantra. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 4, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2018 I'm baffled that people I work with are still sure that Brexit is a great idea. They can't give me a single reason why. The only thing they came up with was "we have to obey too many rules in the EU". That's it. I really don't get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I'm baffled that people I work with are still sure that Brexit is a great idea. They can't give me a single reason why. The only thing they came up with was "we have to obey too many rules in the EU". That's it. I really don't get it. I agree with you. Each to their own and I like to think of myself as open minded and always willing to be convinced of something. But when I talk to a colleague, friend or family member on it they can be incredibly passionate about why its great but then not really back up why. I suspect they are just out rightly racist and want then foreigners gone (but can't admit it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I'm baffled that people I work with are still sure that Brexit is a great idea. They can't give me a single reason why. The only thing they came up with was "we have to obey too many rules in the EU". That's it. I really don't get it. You are not alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) Is there any chance that it won't actually happen? I'm the first to admit that I don't really have much of a grasp on what's happening, but I've always thought this would all fall apart at some point and we'd be heading back with our tail between our legs. Edited June 4, 2018 by Paddywhack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 4, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I'm baffled that people I work with are still sure that Brexit is a great idea. They can't give me a single reason why. The only thing they came up with was "we have to obey too many rules in the EU". That's it. I really don't get it. Neither do they. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 4, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Paddywhack said: Is there any chance that it won't actually happen? I'm the first to admit that I don't really have much of a grasp on what's happening, but I've always thought this would all fall part at some point at we'd be heading back with our tail between our legs. It's not impossible. It's very unlikely. It's basically now about how bad things are - either bad, or really truly shit. Rest assured either way we are unprepared to a negligent degree. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chindie said: Neither do they. I'm convinced they'll only get it when they cant buy food in the shops, which by government estimates will be about 2 weeks according to yesterday's Sunday Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 4, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 minute ago, bickster said: I'm convinced they'll only get it when they cant buy food in the shops, which by government estimates will be about 2 weeks according to yesterday's Sunday Times No they still won't then. It'll be Brussels being vindictive. Or Remoaners. It won't be understood that this was a **** stupid move. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 I'm an ardent remoaner, but I can see the logic behind being out of the EU, if you totally remove any context of the situation. As it stands, we, as a nation, are so tied to the EU in pretty much every single way, that leaving is absolute madness. Leaving without a plan is national suicide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 4, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I'm an ardent remoaner, but I can see the logic behind being out of the EU, if you totally remove any context of the situation. As it stands, we, as a nation, are so tied to the EU in pretty much every single way, that leaving is absolute madness. Leaving without a plan is national suicide. This is kind of what I meant. I could see the logic of voting out when we had the referendum. I totally disagreed with it, but i could see the argument. And I mean the sane argument, not the immigration/nhs bollocks that most people probably voted for. But even now, after 2 years of everything pointing towards this being a terrible **** decision, I don't get how normal intelligent people can still think this is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 4, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2018 51 minutes ago, Paddywhack said: Is there any chance that it won't actually happen? I've said this a couple of times in this thread. I have a niggling feeling that I can't shake that the whole thing won't happen. I don't really know why. I openly admit I don't know a huge amount about politics, so i can't back it up with any reasoned argument. It's just one of those automatic reactions. When someone mentions brexit my instinct is to think "won't happen". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I've said this a couple of times in this thread. I have a niggling feeling that I can't shake that the whole thing won't happen. I don't really know why. I openly admit I don't know a huge amount about politics, so i can't back it up with any reasoned argument. It's just one of those automatic reactions. When someone mentions brexit my instinct is to think "won't happen". I feel the same. I always did, but it was more hope than expectation. But watching key leaver politicians walk it back in the past few weeks gives me hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: But even now, after 2 years of everything pointing towards this being a terrible **** decision, I don't get how normal intelligent people can still think this is a good idea. That's your problem right there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts