The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[fightoffyour]

13 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

I was at Glastonbury.  To say it hit like a ton of bricks would be an understatement

That was some weird atmosphere that Friday / weekend.

[Seat68]

I was so deflated. I was never confident that Remain would win but when it hit I despaired. At least with an election there is the possibility for change every 4 or 5 years. The referendum was so final and I found it difficult to believe. I also separated myself from Leave friends temporarily. I couldn’t take their joy over something so important to me. 

[Enda]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

Russian war ships are cruising around a defenceless Ireland. The UK has leverage, its not a subject that would be played out in the open but behind closed doors it will be on the table. 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-and-irish-forces-monitor-russian-warship-off-ireland/

This drives me mad. The UK has leverage with members of the EU but not with the EU itself.

The Commission and the Parliament would be absolutely dead set against anything like that. Not happening in EU colours.

Now it might happen that many members of the EU sit down with the U.K. on defence. Most are already in NATO for example. But, nope, the Commission and the Parliament are never doing anything military behind closed doors.

[AXD]

20 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

 

Jo swinson said she would try take us back into EU if lib dems won and they performed horrificly at last election. Alot of peoplw still support brexit it seems if tahts anything to go by

This could also be because people are tired of talking about it and want to move on. The last few years are seen as a big waste of time talking about it, negotiating and then ending up with nothing. I can imagine some people are tired of this (even if this means not trying to correct a huge mistake imo)

[Genie]

I don’t think anyone has the stomach for a re-join campaign. Best case is a deal, negotiated in private that gets us trading freely again and can be tweaked without fuss over time. Another Remain out or rejoin campaign will be very toxic for the country.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Genie

[ml1dch]

4 hours ago, tinker said:

Russia has changed the game since the last sit down, Eastern European and a few Scandinavian countries are looking to the UK for security outside of the EU. France and Germany  have been shown as weak when it comes to Russia. Russian war ships are cruising around a defenceless Ireland. The UK has leverage, its not a subject that would be played out in the open but behind closed doors it will be on the table. 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-and-irish-forces-monitor-russian-warship-off-ireland/

With respect, it feels like you're just saying the same thing only louder. The leverage that could be on the table, the UK has reacted to the changed game by keeping it off the table. And obviously it's not nothing, and they are always going to be happier when we cooperating rather than being belligerent.

But the point remains that they are pretty comfortable with the situation as it is now. Big trade imbalance, UK being a bit regretful and sheepish, still following all the same laws, not really moving outside the orbit of the Single Market, still being helpful in the areas that the rest of the Europe wants us to be helpful. Why would they want to change all that? Particularly as I've said, the elephant in the room is still the other side. A return to anything close to how it was just won't happen until the Tory party is pro-Europe again. Because they have no interest in this being a drama that repeats itself every five years. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by ml1dch

[tinker]

3 hours ago, ml1dch said:

With respect, it feels like you're just saying the same thing only louder. The leverage that could be on the table, the UK has reacted to the changed game by keeping it off the table. And obviously it's not nothing, and they are always going to be happier when we cooperating rather than being belligerent.

But the point remains that they are pretty comfortable with the situation as it is now. Big trade imbalance, UK being a bit regretful and sheepish, still following all the same laws, not really moving outside the orbit of the Single Market, still being helpful in the areas that the rest of the Europe wants us to be helpful. Why would they want to change all that? Particularly as I've said, the elephant in the room is still the other side. A return to anything close to how it was just won't happen until the Tory party is pro-Europe again. Because they have no interest in this being a drama that repeats itself every five years. 

Let's see how it all plays out, Europe is under threat and its not being helped by divisions between its major players , the UK being one of them. 

[Genie]

Just now, tinker said:

Let's see how it all plays out, Europe is under threat and its not being helped by divisions between its major players , the UK being one of them. 

What threat is Europe under?

[bickster]

33 minutes ago, tinker said:

Let's see how it all plays out, Europe is under threat and its not being helped by divisions between its major players , the UK being one of them. 

Europe is not the EU

NATO is not the EU

etc

[tinker]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

What threat is Europe under?

https://www.villatalk.com/topic/16351-russia-and-its-“special-operation”-in-ukraine/page/768/#comment-4166916

[tinker]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

Europe is not the EU

NATO is not the EU

etc

Thanks for clearing that up. 

[bickster]

42 minutes ago, tinker said:

Thanks for clearing that up. 

Well you appeared to be confused.

[Genie]

Quote

The Russian invasion of Ukraine would have succeeded if the UK had remained in the EU, Jacob Rees-Mogg has claimed.

The former business secretary, 53, said Brexit gave Britain the freedom to show “global leadership” over Ukraine, making it “impossible for Putin to succeed”.

link

[Davkaus]

Do you think even he believes the shit he talks?

[Genie]

Just now, Davkaus said:

Do you think even he believes the shit he talks?

I can’t believe he’s only 53

I do think he believes this shit, I think he’s mentally ill. 

[HKP90]

14 minutes ago, Genie said:

I can’t believe he’s only 53

I do think he believes this shit, I think he’s mentally ill. 

Classic reaching for justification of his own beliefs. Such people when given power are dangerous, because they are incapable of objectiveness.

[ml1dch]

18 minutes ago, Genie said:

link

To be fair, he does have precedent on his side. Remember how French objections to the Iraq invasion tied our hands and stopped us joining that war?

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

To be fair, he does have precedent on his side. Remember how French objections to the Iraq invasion tied our hands and stopped us joining that war?

We’ve seen counties making their own decisions regardless of whether they are EU members, as well as the EU itself pledging support. He couldn’t be more wrong in this case.

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, ml1dch said:

To be fair, he does have precedent on his side. Remember how French objections to the Iraq invasion tied our hands and stopped us joining that war?

But he's also had the empirical evidence from this actual war. It didn't start yesterday.

Loads of EU countries have given Ukraine all sorts of weapons. It's the argument they made about the Covid response all over again, when we've had the second highest death in Europe, behind Russia who did f**k all.

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

We’ve seen counties making their own decisions regardless of whether they are EU members, as well as the EU itself pledging support. He couldn’t be more wrong in this case.

Well, yes. Hence what I posted.