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blandy

Should I stay or should I go now - U.K. in/out of the EU (contd.)

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A good blog post by Alex Harrowell IMO:

What are Eurosceptics?

'So, about a year ago, I was writing about how the last thing Eurosceptics agreed on was what they were against. Now, it’s a commonplace to argue about whether Jeremy Corbyn – or some other politician, but usually him – is “really a Eurosceptic”. I think this question is no longer meaningful in the terms in which it is stated, not least because the meaning of the word “Eurosceptic” has shifted.

It was never really true to say that Eurosceptics were sceptical about the EU, in the sense of being ready to be convinced by evidence. Instead they were agin it. Very often they might prefer the EEA, or “the Common Market” as in the EU before the Maastricht Treaty, or something along those lines. But today, this is nowhere near enough for Eurosceptics to accept you as one of them. If you are in favour of joining the EEA, like Norway, you will be denounced.

The minimum ideological requirement is now that you demand the total end of all institutional links with the EU – out of the Customs Union, out of EURATOM, probably out of the Eurovision Song Contest. Not just that; you also have to prefer referendums to parliamentary democracy, adopt a generally authoritarian and nationalist worldview, and most of all, coarsen your style and tone. There’s a lot of other stuff you can pick from, but I’m trying to identify the minimum you’ll need in order to pass for Eurosceptic without getting too much abuse.

There are, of course, people on the Left who are sceptical about the EU. Typically, they object to its macro-economic policies in the Eurozone and to its enthusiasm for investor-state dispute clauses in trade agreements, such as TTIP and CETA. It is worth pausing here to remember that the broad Left across Europe regularly organizes mass protest campaigns about trade, they are sometimes successful, and they are invariably about investor-state dispute settlement. The existence of this massive campaigning infrastructure is a really important fact that has shaped a lot of activists and politicians.

The important distinction here is that the anti- or altermondialiste Left has objections to specific EU policies and very often to line-by-line changes in specific numbered paragraphs. Not rarely, they successfully get them changed. If they got a majority in the European Parliament, they would expect to name the new commission president and run the show their way.

This is, in a nutshell, how an opposition operates in democracy. They do not aspire to destroying the EU in a second springtime of nations, unlike Michael Gove MP. Nor do they see their relationship with the EU as a means to the nationalist transformation of their home countries. They do not denounce the citizens of nowhere, demand an end to experts, or aspire to banning the burka. Ironically, although they consider themselves revolutionaries they are some of the least fantastical politicians going. There is an enormous difference.

It is true that their votes, if they went as far as to vote for Brexit, counted in the same way. It’s also barely relevant with regard to the future. The radicalization of the Tories has redefined “Eurosceptic” to mean something like “suburban extreme nationalist”, and the key question is now whether you support that or not.'

http://www.harrowell.org.uk/blog/2018/08/12/what-are-eurosceptics/

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Apparently, Wales has come to its senses and if a vote was held again, as a nation it would vote remain. Even Swansea which was 62% Leave would now vote remain, only 51% but that's a huge swing

There's an article on it in the Bob Server today but I can't be arsed with all the editing I'd need to do to post it, should be pretty easy to find though

A company called Focaldata has used the YouGov Poll data to work out that in total, 14 Welsh constituencies have shifted from Leave to Remain this year. That's a Labour heartland, maybe the Labour Party should start taking notice. Doubt they will though

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Ah found a more quotable piece in the Indy

Quote

More than 100 parliamentary constituencies which backed Leave in the 2016 referendum would now vote to remain in the European Union, according to new analysis of polling.

The findings suggested that most seats in England, Scotland and Wales now contain a majority of voters who want to stay in the EU.

Among constituencies found to have switched from Leave to Remain were arch-Brexiteer Boris Johnson‘s Uxbridge and South Ruislip, Michael Gove’s Surrey Heath and the seats of pro-BrexitLabour MPs Frank Field in Birkenhead and Graham Stringer in Blackley and Broughton.

The findings will increase pressure on Jeremy Corbyn to reconsider Labour’s refusal to give its backing to a second referendum on EU membership.

Even though polls regularly report a strong lead for Remain among Labour voters, a majority of the party’s constituencies backed Brexit in 2016, leaving strategists wary of any suggestion that Labour might not deliver withdrawal.

The figures were produced by consumer analytics company Focaldata, drawing on two YouGov polls of a total of more than 15,000 people.

They found that 112 out of the 632 seats in England, Scotland and Wales had switched from Leave to Remain since the referendum. These included 97 English seats, 14 in Wales and one in Scotland.

Under the Focaldata model, 341 constituencies now have a Remain majority, up from 229 in 2016.

The analysis, conducted for the Best for Britain campaign for a second referendum and the Hope Not Hate campaign against racism, puts Remain on 53 per cent support, against 47 per cent backing Leave.

Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable, who spoke at a rally of People’s Vote supporters in Bristol on Saturday, said: “Whether someone voted to leave or stay in the EU in 2016, nearly everyone is disillusioned by the mess the Conservatives have made of Brexit.

“This research is yet more compelling evidence that the British people must be given the final say on any – or no – Brexit deal. The shallow argument against giving the people their say diminishes towards nothingness with every passing day.”

Sir Vince told the Bristol rally that opponents of Brexit must work together “as a team” across party divides in the drive for a second EU referendum.

The Lib Dem leader said it was clear the “centre of gravity” on Brexit is shifting in favour of a national poll on the final deal.

Sir Vince told the rally that since the 52 per cent-48 per cent victory for Leave in 2016, “the situation has changed, the facts have changed”.

“We were all told the British government was going to save vast amounts of money,” he said. “We now know that’s not the case: there’s the £40bn divorce settlement, the economy’s slowing down, there’s less money for the NHS

“We were told it was simple – it’s actually proving unbelievably complicated.

“Another thing that’s happened in the last two years is Trump. The whole premise of Britain embarking on some buccaneering free trading adventure around the world as a country independent of the EU has been completely negated by Trump’s protectionist agenda. This has made a complete and utter nonsense of it.

“So our position in arguing against Brexit and for a people’s vote is now stronger than ever.

“But we have to work together; we have to work across party frontiers.”

And he said: “This is a campaign that we can win. Keep fighting, keep campaigning and we will win at the end of this.”

He was joined by Conservative MP for Totnes Sarah Wollaston, who said: “To proceed with Brexit without a People’s Vote would be like a surgeon carrying out an amputation having sought their patient’s consent two years beforehand without either of them knowing whether they were going to lose a few toes or their whole leg.

“Informed consent to Brexit can only happen once people know the final deal – if any – and have clear information about the risks as well as any benefits.”

 

5

112 constituencies swung the other way according to that data and 53% Remain - 47% Leave

 

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1 hour ago, bickster said:

Ah found a more quotable piece in the Indy

112 constituencies swung the other way according to that data and 53% Remain - 47% Leave

 

"Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got til it's gone..."

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On 10/08/2018 at 15:05, ml1dch said:

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Shock at The Heil as they discover that the consequence of ending free movement is that movement is no longer free.

Says a lot about their readership that Spain and Italy have to be specifically named as EU countries. It's perhaps surprising that they stopped short of stating that Benidorm will have an entrance fee.

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2 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

Says a lot about their readership that Spain and Italy have to be specifically named as EU countries. It's perhaps surprising that they stopped short of stating that Benidorm will have an entrance fee.

Wait until they discover that British driving licences might not be recognised in EU countries

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8 minutes ago, bickster said:

Wait until they discover that British driving licences might not be recognised in EU countries

Grayling has already been told that British trucks won’t be allowed to drive in Europe too. He seemed surprised...

 

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15 minutes ago, choffer said:

Grayling has already been told that British trucks won’t be allowed to drive in Europe too. He seemed surprised...

 

This government have killed political satire for decades, their incompetence and sheer dereliction of duty, aside from any politics, actually appears to know no depths

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Quote

 

The Bank of England has ploughed billions of the Treasury’s foreign currency reserves into euros since the Brexit referendum, in an apparent vote of confidence in the single currency.

Figures from the Bank — which manages stocks of foreign currency on behalf of the Treasury — show that Britain now holds more euros than dollars in its reserves, reversing the position of June 2016.

Campaigners for a fresh Brexit referendum seized on the numbers as evidence that the government was betting on the stability of the euro even as ministers push for a clean break with the EU.

Labour MP Chris Leslie, the former shadow chancellor and supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said: “The Treasury and the Bank are betting on the euro as a bulwark against growing instability in the world economy — instability that is being fed not just by Donald Trump and his enthusiasm for trade wars, but also by our own ministers’ dedication to delivering a hard Brexit that will cut us adrift from our biggest market and, in the catastrophic case of a ‘no deal’, potentially lead to serious chaos in supermarkets and money markets alike.”

Leslie added: “It hardly gets more ‘2018’ than this — ministers betting taxpayers’ money against the consequences of their own policies.”

 

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