The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[bannedfromHandV]

18 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

The thing that's annoyed me most is how easily people are letting the tories off the hook for the rest of it.

We're billing foreign nationals who live in the UK, have a job, and pay their taxes, so that they can use a service that their taxes pay for. Foreign workers, not in a negative contribution due to their childhood education. Foreign workers who quite possibly will pay NI for years but never claim their pension. Foreign workers who we can just kick out if they're unemployed and can't pay their way.

But it's ok, because Boris is looking after the ones in the NHS. Bollocks to that. NHS workers shouldn't get a discount, anymore than foreign workers in the fire brigade get a discount on their non-British firefighting surcharge. NHS workers should pay the same as everyone else. Through their bloody taxation. The problem isn't that NHS workers weren't excluded, it's that the charge is bollocks and should be scrapped entirely, but people have been far too happy to win a minor battle and lose the war as the tories reframed it to looking after healthcare workers.

Appeals to a large portion of their membership and support though doesn’t it.

And by large portion of their membership and support I mean the racist, misinformed and undereducated dullards we seem to be surrounded by these days. Them and the old folk who have long lost most of their marbles.

[meregreen]

36 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Appeals to a large portion of their membership and support though doesn’t it.

And by large portion of their membership and support I mean the racist, misinformed and undereducated dullards we seem to be surrounded by these days. Them and the old folk who have long lost most of their marbles.

I’m pretty old. I hate the bastards, but I know what you mean.

[HanoiVillan]

54 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

The thing that's annoyed me most is how easily people are letting the tories off the hook for the rest of it.

We're billing foreign nationals who live in the UK, have a job, and pay their taxes, so that they can use a service that their taxes pay for. Foreign workers, not in a negative contribution due to their childhood education. Foreign workers who quite possibly will pay NI for years but never claim their pension. Foreign workers who we can just kick out if they're unemployed and can't pay their way.

But it's ok, because Boris is looking after the ones in the NHS. Bollocks to that. NHS workers shouldn't get a discount, anymore than foreign workers in the fire brigade get a discount on their non-British firefighting surcharge. NHS workers should pay the same as everyone else. Through their bloody taxation. The problem isn't that NHS workers weren't excluded, it's that the charge is bollocks and should be scrapped entirely, but people have been far too happy to win a minor battle and lose the war as the tories reframed it to looking after healthcare workers.

Indeed. It is very important to stress that the so-called 'NHS surcharge' is not hypothecated towards the health service in any way. It goes into general government revenues, so it is correctly understood as a tax, not a surcharge.

The legislation that led to the creation was called the Immigration Act 2014. Every Conservative MP and more than half of the Lib Dems voted for it; Labour were whipped to abstain. 18 MPs either voted against it, or were tellers for the no vote. You can find the list here: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/windrush-immigration-act-corbyn-may-540389

[blandy]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Appeals to a large portion of their membership and support though doesn’t it.

And by large portion of their membership and support I mean the racist, misinformed and undereducated dullards we seem to be surrounded by these days. Them and the old folk who have long lost most of their marbles.

It appeals to lots of people from across the spectrum, or at least it did until they found out that nurses n'that y'know....matter.

But anyway, it's one of those things, as you say Gov't did to appeal to a perception people had of "benefit scrounging health tourists" - whatever the reality. And I wonder who perpetuated that line.

There was also the (fair) line that "loads of countries do it". Which is harder to argue against (whether they're wrong, too, is another matter).

On the old folks point - quite a number of them may have paid almost no tax (income tax) their whole lives - maybe housewives who never had a paid job, then in retirement get their pension - they've obviously contributed to society via childcare etc. but an immigrant coming here at say 20, to do a job and work and maybe go home at 60 will contribute 40 years of taxes and no years of "taking", compared to the retired housewife who "took" for 16 years as a child and then another 20 as a pensioner and "gave" next to nothing in revenue. It's not logical at all in that regard.

The notion that you should have to live somewhere for a while, a few years, to qualify for all the benefits and perks is not wholly without some merit, not as an economical argument, but as a principle for immigration, perhaps. Ideally that wouldn't be the way to do it, but a lot of people will like that incomers have to earn the right to get full perks by being a good citizen for a while.

[chrisp65]

Am I right in thinking that on the NHS surcharge, it was voted through by tories, libs and Labour?

Parties opposing it were Greens, SNP, Plaid.

Notable exception, 6 Labour MP’s rebelled, including Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[Seat68]

5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Am I right in thinking that on the NHS surcharge, it was voted through by tories, libs and Labour?

Parties opposing it were Greens, SNP, Plaid.

Notable exception, 6 Labour MP’s rebelled, including Jeremy Corbyn.

 

Labour abstained so in effect its a vote for. Libs voted for and well, Tories gonna Tory. 

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, Seat68 said:

Labour abstained so in effect its a vote for. Libs voted for and well, Tories gonna Tory. 

Not much moral high ground to be had in abstaining.

I wonder what the country would decide on a blind taste test of Green Party policies and / or Jeremy Corbyn policies?

 

[tonyh29]

38 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Not much moral high ground to be had in abstaining.

I wonder what the country would decide on a blind taste test of Green Party policies and / or Jeremy Corbyn policies?

 

people  would do their  upmost to  sniff them out so they can be agaisnt purely as they know whose policy it is , difference is the public wouldn’t be doing it to preserve their like count on a forum

 

 

[chrisp65]

12 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

people  would do their  upmost to  sniff them out so they can be agaisnt purely as they know whose policy it is , difference is the public wouldn’t be doing it to preserve their like count on a forum

 

 

 

Bit early, but fair play its a bank holiday weekend. Don’t forget to eat something.

[choffer]

 

[snowychap]

 

[Xann]

Quote

 

Revealed: UK’s lockdown dithering led to worst death toll in Europe

Boris Johnson was initially hostile to a lockdown but his advisers changed his mind

Coronavirus infections across Britain rocketed from an estimated 200,000 to 1.5 million in the nine days before lockdown while the prime minister agonised over how and when to act.

An investigation has found that Boris Johnson’s delay in introducing measures to combat the virus in those pivotal nine days of March meant that the UK had more infections when it went into lockdown than Italy, Spain, Germany and France when they took the same drastic action.

The findings are likely to explain why Britain eventually suffered a greater death toll than other European countries — now standing at 36,675 — and why it is taking the UK longer to come out of lockdown than some of its neighbours.

 

We knew this, but it's nice that the Sunday Times picked it up.

 

[Xann]

 

[chrisp65]

Don’t forget to clap like good little people next Thursday.

[HanoiVillan]

On a different day, this revelation might have cost her her job:

Cabinet minister Anne-Marie Trevelyan in race row over anti-Chinese jibe

'Cabinet minister Anne-Marie Trevelyan is accused of stoking racial tension after circulating an anti-Chinese jibe to Tory MPs.

The International Development Secretary, 51 – tasked with delivering £13.4billion in overseas aid – sent it to a WhatsApp group which was discussing concerns that China is exploiting the coronavirus pandemic.

A disgusted MP forwarded a screenshot to the Sunday Mirror, saying: “This should cost the minister her job. It’s an appalling example of old-fashioned stereotypes.”

The first British Chinese woman MP, Labour ’s Sarah Owen, 37, called it “totally inappropriate”, saying such messages fan flames sparked by US President Donald Trump, who accuses China of causing the pandemic.'

more on link: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/cabinet-minister-anne-marie-trevelyan-22076194

[meregreen]

7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Don’t forget to clap like good little people next Thursday.

Whatever grievances we have with this Govt. and I personally loath them. Belittling people’s desire to show their appreciation to those literally putting their lives on the line to protect us, is not the best response. 

[chrisp65]

This has already been taken down, but it was there

[chrisp65]

27 minutes ago, meregreen said:

Whatever grievances we have with this Govt. and I personally loath them. Belittling people’s desire to show their appreciation to those literally putting their lives on the line to protect us, is not the best response. 

Well you have a good clap then, personally, I’m done with the whole thing.

[blandy]

20 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Well you have a good clap then, personally, I’m done with the whole thing.

The person whose idea it was and who started it wants it to stop after Thursday. They're right.

[Xann]