Popular Post blandy Posted February 13, 2020 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: It depends what we mean by 'challenge to the PM' doesn't it. Maybe - but given the PM (with a decent majority) has the opportunity to sack the chancellor, a challenge is only of impact, or strength, if /when the PM is already in a weak position. Being able to disagree, even strongly, ought to be a strength, as long as its professional and private. A PM who can't withstand scrutiny/argument is no good. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 13, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2020 37 minutes ago, Awol said: You’re reading something into posts that actually said the opposite. It was this that confused me, and maybe others, Jon. (Accepting you covered government by cabinet). 6 hours ago, Awol said: Control of the Treasury shifting to the PM. it's potentially quite dangerous for the PM to control the treasury - that's the chancellor's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, blandy said: It was this that confused me, and maybe others, Jon. (Accepting you covered government by cabinet). it's potentially quite dangerous for the PM to control the treasury - that's the chancellor's job. Was trying to limit the length of responses, but making the point that the Treasury is being brought to heel behind the wider strategy of No.10, not freelancing and pursuing it’s own agenda, including briefing against its own government - as it has done consistently for several years now. In shorthand, “control of the Treasury shifting to the PM.” Consolidating control of the spads is a very start move, imo. The next 12 months are vital for the future of the country, you can’t afford people pulling in different directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 13, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Awol said: Was trying to limit the length of responses, but making the point that the Treasury is being brought to heel behind the wider strategy of No.10, not freelancing and pursuing it’s own agenda, including briefing against its own government - as it has done consistently for several years now. In shorthand, “control of the Treasury shifting to the PM.” Consolidating control of the spads is a very start move, imo. The next 12 months are vital for the future of the country, you can’t afford people pulling in different directions. Ah, OK. Understood. Had Javid being doing the "freelancing" thing? he's only been there 10 minutes. I don't like him, so no tears from me. The worry is that Johnson with his record of mad schemes and half thought through idea, and the attention span of a goldfish will decide to make a garden bridge or Zipwire to Mars and then with no push back spend a load of dosh on something ridiculous. There's pulling in different directions, and refusing to listen to advice. Two sides of the same coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Let's give the country and the money to a bloke you wouldn't trust with a crayon. Because he's got the right plan and the personnel onboard to pull it off. F***ing Dreamworld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I actually feel quite sad about Javid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I actually feel quite sad about Javid. How about now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted February 13, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, ml1dch said: How about now? Oh don’t get me wrong. I don’t mean sad about him getting sacked. He just always makes me feel quite sad. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Quote These three post-Brexit bills bulldoze a hole through environmental protections Wildlife, air quality and fish stocks are all at risk as ministers water down EU regulations Grauniad They're going to just keep coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Awol said: I wrote that the Treasury should be subordinate to the First Lord of the Treasury - the PM. I also wrote that decisions should be made in Cabinet and then implemented across government, by all relevant ministers and departments (the opposite of your accusation). The idea is to stop individuals and their teams freelancing and pursuing their own agendas. I maintain that’s exactly how our system is supposed to work. You’re reading something into posts that actually said the opposite. What rot. Edit: To clarify - the rot is not that people shouldn't be taken to task for freelancing or that a Government should make decisions within Cabinet (as in actually made by those in it rather than presented to them for them to clap through) but that all of the above is what you meant in your previous posts (beginning with the 'take back control' line). As far as any notion that today's events are a precursor to a return to actual Cabinet Government - that seems beyond fanciful. This is a move to concentrate and consolidate power in the hands of the PM and his advisor and reinforce the clear message that dissent is not to be tolerated. Edited February 13, 2020 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, blandy said: Ah, OK. Understood. Had Javid being doing the "freelancing" thing? he's only been there 10 minutes. I don't like him, so no tears from me. The worry is that Johnson with his record of mad schemes and half thought through idea, and the attention span of a goldfish will decide to make a garden bridge or Zipwire to Mars and then with no push back spend a load of dosh on something ridiculous. There's pulling in different directions, and refusing to listen to advice. Two sides of the same coin? Sonia Khan, one of Javid’s spads, was marched out of No.11 under police escort for leaking and briefing against No.10. Spads do not do that without the nod from their minister. Allegedly that behaviour has continued from No.11 & it’s notable that those squealing in the media (David Gauke et al.) about his exit were the core of Remain in the Tory party. Bluntly, Johnson is attempting a revolution against the established orthodoxy of Whitehall, particularly around increased public spending on infrastructure (good in principle, we’ll see in practice). Pulling that off while simultaneously negotiating withdrawal from the EU is a difficult task. Doing so while cells working for different ministers were conducting an insurgency would be impossible. A long overdue dose of realism has taken hold, imo, and not before time. Btw, I’m all in on zip-wire to Mars - after you’ve tested it. Edited February 13, 2020 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 13, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Awol said: Btw, I’m all in on zip-wire to Mars - after you’ve tested it. But sir, I’ve got a bone spur and bunions. Don’t send me, sir. i actually agree with most of your post. I don’t for a moment though share your apparent faith in these twonks is to manage their Brexit. It’s gonna bite them, big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post snowychap Posted February 13, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) Wow. Revolutions, insurgencies and then talk of 'realism'. Just wow. Edited February 13, 2020 by snowychap 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, blandy said: I actually agree with most of your post. I don’t for a moment though share your apparent faith in these twonks is to manage their Brexit. It’s gonna bite them, big time. I’ve got no faith in Johnson and less faith in Corbyn, but wanted Brexit. Hobson’s choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, snowychap said: Wow. Revolutions, insurgencies and then talk of 'realism'. Comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Far far far more stupid than anything Diane Abbott has ever said on TV... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 "you brainless wasp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Ah, Boris Johnson as leader of the revolution. What a world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Let's review the Great Offices of State this morning: PM: Boris Johnson Chancellor: Rishi Sunak Home: Priti Patel Foreign: Dominic Raab Defence: Ben Wallace It's quite remarkable, after ten years of Tory governments, to have a group of people with so little government experience across these five jobs. Of these, two have previously resigned from Cabinet roles in which they performed largely terribly (Johnson & Raab), one 'resigned' from a previous Cabinet post in disgrace (Patel), and the other two would be difficult for most people to pick out of a lineup. We shouldn't assume that none of them will grow into their roles, because the odds are at least a couple will, but right now this is a group of people with a tiny amount of institutional experience, and even less at their current level, and the accusation that they have been chosen or kept simply for their willingness to be toadies and yes-men needs some solid evidence to disprove it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts