The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[StefanAVFC]

well said

[chrisp65]

The problem with this government, is that we get the government we vote for.

From ukip to the DUP to the tories to brexit, there's a lot of gammon and a lot of I'm not a racist...but, in this country.

We've somehow got ourselves confused angry and bitter, and just like that dick that owns Wetherpoons, we just want it to go back to what it was like before. Except of course, it never was.

It's quite quite sad, but in the light of this nasty little government 'sending people back' I doubt very much it would impact on an election result tomorrow. Just like bombing Syria without a plan won't impact an election result. Just like triggering brexit without a plan won't impact an election result.

As a nation we have a disconnection between what we know we should say, and how we individually act. From plastic bags, to british food, to the treatment of our neighbours, to the welcome of genuine refugees.

We get the government and opposition we deserve. We must be a right bunch of shits.

[chrisp65]

30 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

It's certainly not difficult to imagine Guy Verhofstadt standing up in the European Parliament saying "how can we take these people seriously when it comes to citizens' rights when this is how they treat people"

And he'd be right.

Though in the interest of balance, that man has no moral ground on citizens rights. His goading and insulting of Catalans asking for democratic elections has been a disgrace.

His only interest is the protection and promotion of the european super state.

[chrisp65]

My wife's going to the West Indies.

Jamaica?

No, the tories did.

[blandy]

49 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

The problem with this government, is that we get the government we vote for.

From ukip to the DUP to the tories to brexit, there's a lot of gammon and a lot of I'm not a racist...but, in this country.

We've somehow got ourselves confused angry and bitter, and just like that dick that owns Wetherpoons, we just want it to go back to what it was like before. Except of course, it never was.

It's quite quite sad, but in the light of this nasty little government 'sending people back' I doubt very much it would impact on an election result tomorrow. Just like bombing Syria without a plan won't impact an election result. Just like triggering brexit without a plan won't impact an election result.

As a nation we have a disconnection between what we know we should say, and how we individually act. From plastic bags, to british food, to the treatment of our neighbours, to the welcome of genuine refugees.

We get the government and opposition we deserve. We must be a right bunch of shits.

We don’t though, do we. What percentage of people voted for a Tory (or Tory DUP combo). And what percentage voted for other parties?  Our system means we get a government most people didn’t vote for, every time. For all that I share your dismay at the ham people, there are far more non-ham people, in and out of government.

the biggest frustration is, for me at least that there is absolutely nothing I can do to make the tiniest difference, to get rid of the shower of words removed in charge, or for that matter could do to stop that arse Corbyn from getting elected. Most voters and non voters are powerless under our system. We get governments and oppositions no one deserves.

[chrisp65]

Just now, blandy said:

We don’t though, do we. What percentage of people voted for a Tory (or Tory DUP combo). And what percentage voted for other parties?  Our system means we get a government most people didn’t vote for, every time. For all that I share your dismay at the ham people, there are far more non-ham people, in and out of government.

the biggest frustration is, for me at least that there is absolutely nothing I can do to make the tiniest difference, to get rid of the shower of words removed in charge, or for that matter could do to stop that arse Corbyn from getting elected. Most voters and non voters are powerless under our system. We get governments and oppositions no one deserves.

 

A third of all voters didn't vote and of those that did, 45% voted for the dark side. 

Which is a strong majority happy with the crappy. 

 

But I also take your point about vote versus seats and all that. I can also sympathise with those that couldn't see an alternative on their ballot paper.

 

[maqroll]

4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

well said

I don't post here much, but came to post this as well. Big moment!

 

[maqroll]

Seems Anglos on both sides of the ocean have some serious racial paranoia.

[blandy]

11 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

A third of all voters didn't vote and of those that did, 45% voted for the dark side. 

Which is a strong majority happy with the crappy. 

But I also take your point about vote versus seats and all that. I can also sympathise with those that couldn't see an alternative on their ballot paper.

I don’t want to seem picky, as we’re broadly saying similar things, but the third of people who didn’t vote, by definition clearly didn’t vote for the government. So my point that we get government that most people didn’t vote for, is absolutely right.

you say, or imply that those who don’t vote for anyone are happy with the crappy .  I suggest that’s wrong in large part. Many don’t vote because “they’re all the same “ or “none of the above” or “it’s pointless here, it’s safe Labour [or whoever]”. Some may be happy with the crappy, but definitely neither a strong majority nor a majority at all.

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

The bad faith of Conservatives this morning is simply astonishing. I mean, get a load of this:

'They're being treated terribly'! How on Earth did that happen, Nick? Don't you want to stand up for your own policies?

Yes, Priti, what 'an appalling situation'! How did we get here?

(https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24778/priti_patel/witham/votes)

It really is a mystery isn't it. Would take a real Sherlock Holmes to figure this one out. 

Everywhere you look, people are trying new tactics:

'Fiasco'. 'Cock-ups'. Anything to avoid having to admit that this was government policy. They're going to try and take this 'it's all the fault of low-level functionaries in the civil service' line (also known as the 'the empress can't fail, she can only be failed' line) as far as they can. Don't let them. This has been their policy for eight years, through two acts of Parliament, and May - personally - was the architect. Don't let them off the hook; make them face the consequences of their actions. 

 

[lapal_fan]

14 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

The problem with this government, is that we get the government we vote for.

From ukip to the DUP to the tories to brexit, there's a lot of gammon and a lot of I'm not a racist...but, in this country.

We've somehow got ourselves confused angry and bitter, and just like that dick that owns Wetherpoons, we just want it to go back to what it was like before. Except of course, it never was.

It's quite quite sad, but in the light of this nasty little government 'sending people back' I doubt very much it would impact on an election result tomorrow. Just like bombing Syria without a plan won't impact an election result. Just like triggering brexit without a plan won't impact an election result.

As a nation we have a disconnection between what we know we should say, and how we individually act. From plastic bags, to british food, to the treatment of our neighbours, to the welcome of genuine refugees.

We get the government and opposition we deserve. We must be a right bunch of shits.

Great post and I think the bolded statement is particularly true. 

You speak to almost anyone, and they are decent, empathetic people, they say all the right things..  But(!) when something or someone is posed as a threat, or something which may make someones life that bit more difficult, then it's an instant return to ignorance and laziness.  People are lazy (Well, we work hard to pay for these expensive mortgages and other things, but outside of work, I stand by it). 

It's all good if someone else is sorting out the problem.  If something is your problem, then we see an almost wall like stance of unaccountability.  

Right now, there's a culture of "outrage".  If you see a number of immigrants and a headline, the go-to stance is "outrage", as long as I don't have to do anything about it. 

The danger with "outrage" is, is the soundbites which people, politicians etc come out with, are SO much more influential.  It's important for politicians to very carefully consider what they say in public (particularly those wanting to get anywhere), more so than ever.  Look at Dianne Abbott, known mostly for being shit at maths.  Corbin, terrorist sympathiser.  Cameron, pig ****.  May, a complete word removed. 

You gotta stay squeaky clean.   

[blandy]

31 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

You speak to almost anyone, and they are decent, empathetic people, they say all the right things..  But(!) when something or someone is posed as a threat, or something which may make someones life that bit more difficult, then it's an instant return to ignorance and laziness.  People are lazy (Well, we work hard to pay for these expensive mortgages and other things, but outside of work, I stand by it). 

It's all good if someone else is sorting out the problem.  If something is your problem, then we see an almost wall like stance of unaccountability.  

Right now, there's a culture of "outrage".  If you see a number of immigrants and a headline, the go-to stance is "outrage", as long as I don't have to do anything about it. 

The danger with "outrage" is, is the soundbites which people, politicians etc come out with, are SO much more influential.  It's important for politicians to very carefully consider what they say in public (particularly those wanting to get anywhere), more so than ever.  Look at Dianne Abbott, known mostly for being shit at maths.  Corbin, terrorist sympathiser.  Cameron, pig ****.  May, a complete word removed. 

You gotta stay squeaky clean. 

I'm in the strange position of agreeing and disagreeing with this at the same time. It's as well that I'm sitting down, as I'd be all dizzy and fall over, otherwise.

I think you're right that when presented with a situation that they can see, touch, feel -most people by far, say and do the right things. But I also think that there are a fair chunk who would stop and film on their phones, rather than help as first instinct. I still think that if you remove the immediacy of that " see, touch, feel" presence, then people become indifferent much more often - Syrian refugees being an example. 

I think you're bang on about "someone else" should sort this [problem] out. But also when you say "something is your problem, then we see an almost wall like stance of unaccountability" it often doesn't take much to change people's behaviour, just a little nudge - 5p on a plastic bag charge and there's a huge reduction in the use of throw away bags.

The outrage thing - yeah, I agree. Everything is presented in back and white, everytthing is a "crisis" or a "victory" everyone is brilliant or terrible etc. The obvious difficulty there is that the real, genuine examples of crisis or brilliance or villainy or whatever become lost in the constant noise.

The Windrush people and the deliberate policy to make their lives difficult  should result in the resignation of both Amber Rudd and Theresa May. This is, as @HanoiVillan has pointed out a absolutely deliberate Governemnt poilcy for the pasy 6 or 7 years or so. It's not an accident, it's not officials being over zealous. It's what Theresa May set in place. But this absolute outrage will be lost with all the other things that aren't really outrages - somebody doing their sums wrong, or being a bit clumsy with their words in an interview.

Interestingly too, the WIndrush thing has (it seems to me) actually got a vast majority of people from the Daily Heil to The Guardian, from Rees-Mogg to Lammy and all the folks who have signed the petitions n'that all on the same, right, decent, side. Apart from the Government, obviously. So there we all are, standing up for the rights of immigrants. Blimey.

[lapal_fan]

13 minutes ago, blandy said:

I'm in the strange position of agreeing and disagreeing with this at the same time. It's as well that I'm sitting down, as I'd be all dizzy and fall over, otherwise.

I think you're right that when presented with a situation that they can see, touch, feel -most people by far, say and do the right things. But I also think that there are a fair chunk who would stop and film on their phones, rather than help as first instinct. I still think that if you remove the immediacy of that " see, touch, feel" presence, then people become indifferent much more often - Syrian refugees being an example. 

I think you're bang on about "someone else" should sort this [problem] out. But also when you say "something is your problem, then we see an almost wall like stance of unaccountability" it often doesn't take much to change people's behaviour, just a little nudge - 5p on a plastic bag charge and there's a huge reduction in the use of throw away bags.

The outrage thing - yeah, I agree. Everything is presented in back and white, everytthing is a "crisis" or a "victory" everyone is brilliant or terrible etc. The obvious difficulty there is that the real, genuine examples of crisis or brilliance or villainy or whatever become lost in the constant noise.

The Windrush people and the deliberate policy to make their lives difficult  should result in the resignation of both Amber Rudd and Theresa May. This is, as @HanoiVillan has pointed out a absolutely deliberate Governemnt poilcy for the pasy 6 or 7 years or so. It's not an accident, it's not officials being over zealous. It's what Theresa May set in place. But this absolute outrage will be lost with all the other things that aren't really outrages - somebody doing their sums wrong, or being a bit clumsy with their words in an interview.

Interestingly too, the WIndrush thing has (it seems to me) actually got a vast majority of people from the Daily Heil to The Guardian, from Rees-Mogg to Lammy and all the folks who have signed the petitions n'that all on the same, right, decent, side. Apart from the Government, obviously. So there we all are, standing up for the rights of immigrants. Blimey.

Funny innit how people can empathise with people who are having the shit bombed out of them, their homes, their lively hoods - but when they need somewhere to go.. 

NIMBY - I mean, if this was Blighty being bombed, we'd all have built our own houses by the time the 2nd round of bombs came in and built bomb shelters for ourselves.. lazy syrians. 

 

[Xann]

It's thought likely that after the Syrian incident Russian hackers are looking for dirt on the Tories and their chums.

Could things get more desperate for the worst government in memory?

Let's hope so.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Xann said:

It's thought likely that after the Syrian incident Russian hackers are looking for dirt on the Tories and their chums.

Could things get more desperate for the worst government in memory?

Let's hope so.

Since one of them recently 'forgot' he'd purchased seven luxury apartments in Southampton, I imagine it might not be too difficult to find something out of the ordinary. 

[choffer]

17 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

From ukip to the DUP to the tories to brexit, there's a lot of gammon and a lot of I'm not a racist...but, in this country.

 

[HanoiVillan]

Another Tory classic:

 

[claretman]

[HanoiVillan]

So, how do you think the Tories came up with their 'less than 100,000 immigrants per year' target?

Do you think they ran studies, commissioned economists, looked at what the country needs in terms of foreign exchange and nursing home nurses and crunched the numbers? Well, that would be pretty naive wouldn't it, obviously it's more cynical than that. 

Do you think they ran focus groups, polled scenarios, and decided that this was the optimum number needed to take the wind out of UKIP's sails? Well, that might be the requisite amount of cynicism, but in fact the wrong estimation of competence, as Fraser Nelson reports:

'Such a policy should replace the current crude immigration target, which has not been met since it was created. Mrs May once referred to the target as a ‘comment’ during last year’s campaign, which was truer than she would admit. The policy was created on a television studio sofa by Damian Green, Mrs May’s erstwhile deputy, who said during a TV interview that the Tories would cut net migration to the ‘tens of thousands’. This was not an agreed policy. Rather than admit that the (then) immigration spokesman had misspoken, the Tories turned his slip of the tongue into policy. So the ‘tens of thousands’ pledge remains to this day, supported by almost no one in cabinet.'

(https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/oed-thomas-bridges-james-murray-philological-society/)

But of course. 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

On 16/04/2018 at 20:42, chrisp65 said:

My wife's going to the West Indies.

Jamaica?

No, the tories did.

Instead of the Caribbean,  maybe something a little closer to home,  I suggest a quick trip to Bangor and then Exeter,   then,  depending on the weather and general environment you could then take her right up the Cheddar Gorge as a unexpected nice surprise.  Not all the attractions are open this time of year though so best to check on the internet,  some are open all year round but are prone to unexpected flooding which can happen anywhere, old infrastructure I suppose.