Refugee crisis

[MakemineVanilla]

I hate people

Don't worry I am sure there is a petition for that too.

[lapal_fan]

**** me. What is going on in the world where you can actually find that many people to sign something like that.

I believe his name to be Nigel.

[tonyh29]

I'd be just as worried about the 430 ,000 asking for more to be allowed in tbh

that's not a comment on immigration , more a comment on people jumping on bandwagons  ..... how long has this refugee crises been going on ?  when did they suddenly become interested , was it  last week , last month , last year , the year before  .. 2011 when the war started ?

My daughters friend form school is Syrian , we helped host a fund raising event for Syrian people at the school early last year  ... it did quite well (raised over £15k) , but honestly nobody gave a **** about the Syrian people , they gave their money and forgot about it ... same as the people that sign this petition , the see a dead baby on the beach and it pricks their conscience and they sign a petition ... and then move on because Strictly come dancing has just started a new season

[snowychap]

I hate people

Don't worry I am sure there is a petition for that too.

More likely to be hundreds of thousands of different petitions each with one different signature.

[lapal_fan]

I'd be just as worried about the 430 ,000 asking for more to be allowed in tbh

that's not a comment on immigration , more a comment on people jumping on bandwagons  ..... how long has this refugee crises been going on ?  when did they suddenly become interested , was it  last week , last month , last year , the year before  .. 2011 when the war started ?

My daughters friend form school is Syrian , we helped host a fund raising event for Syrian people at the school early last year  ... it did quite well (raised over £15k) , but honestly nobody gave a **** about the Syrian people , they gave their money and forgot about it ... same as the people that sign this petition , the see a dead baby on the beach and it pricks their conscience and they sign a petition ... and then move on because Strictly come dancing has just started a new season

So you expect people to think about these issues 24/7?

If you do, you're a better man than me, and I'd consider myself pretty compassionate.

[Eames]

As a verified asshole - I can confirm I don't think about them 24/7 - but it bothers me immensely when I do. 

[villaglint]

Tony that is a pretty hipster comment from someone who is usually pretty thoughtful. Even includes "some of my best friends are Syrian" love it.

It's something I'm seeing quite a lot at the moment but I don't see why people have a problem with an issue gaining traction in the wider public conscience like this. Surely that just shows that this is a growing crisis that hasnt been dealt with up to this point.

As I said before I think in the last weeks, months and years people had been paralysed by the complexity of the issue. It still remains so and that hasnt changed.

However what that photo made people realise was that even if solving this is incredibly difficult as fellow human beings in incredibly fortunate positions we should be doing more than we currently are (or were) to help these people.

A growing pressure from the wider public resulted in your beloved government changing their position so even if the public do move on to thinking about Strictly their concern has done some good in this instance.

 

 

 

[MakemineVanilla]

I'd be just as worried about the 430 ,000 asking for more to be allowed in tbh

that's not a comment on immigration , more a comment on people jumping on bandwagons  ..... how long has this refugee crises been going on ?  when did they suddenly become interested , was it  last week , last month , last year , the year before  .. 2011 when the war started ?

My daughters friend form school is Syrian , we helped host a fund raising event for Syrian people at the school early last year  ... it did quite well (raised over £15k) , but honestly nobody gave a **** about the Syrian people , they gave their money and forgot about it ... same as the people that sign this petition , the see a dead baby on the beach and it pricks their conscience and they sign a petition ... and then move on because Strictly come dancing has just started a new season

So you expect people to think about these issues 24/7?

If you do, you're a better man than me, and I'd consider myself pretty compassionate.

I think most people find compassion to order difficult to manage because next week we might be required to be compassionate about something else entirely.

When you have had a busy week it is sometimes difficult to remember what you are supposed to be sad about.

Ebola, Palestine, Human Rights in Vietnam, or Villa's tendency to concede late goals.

[tonyh29]

Tony that is a pretty hipster comment from someone who is usually pretty thoughtful. Even includes "some of my best friends are Syrian" love it.

It's something I'm seeing quite a lot at the moment but I don't see why people have a problem with an issue gaining traction in the wider public conscience like this. Surely that just shows that this is a growing crisis that hasnt been dealt with up to this point.

As I said before I think in the last weeks, months and years people had been paralysed by the complexity of the issue. It still remains so and that hasnt changed.

However what that photo made people realise was that even if solving this is incredibly difficult as fellow human beings in incredibly fortunate positions we should be doing more than we currently are (or were) to help these people.

A growing pressure from the wider public resulted in your beloved government changing their position so even if the public do move on to thinking about Strictly their concern has done some good in this instance.

 

 

 

?? i think in your haste to throw the hipster line out there you didn't read what i was saying , or didn't really get the point I was making

 

I mentioned them because it was relevant to the point I was making  .. I also said it was my daughters class mate , not my "best friends"  ... for the record they happen to be a lovely family , even if they do employ a nanny despite the wife not working which I think is just lazy 

 

also , they aren't my beloved government , I didn't vote for them  ... but since you mention it the labour debate had the 4 of them falling over themselves to say they would do more and blah blah ..where us prior to the election when they were running scared of UKIP the 4 of them would have been saying ..no room here we don't want them  ( i say 4 but , really that should be 3 as i think Corbyn's view would have been the same regardless )  .. that's politicians for you

Edited September 8, 2015 by tonyh29

[villaglint]

It was a joke Tony relax

[tonyh29]

I'd be just as worried about the 430 ,000 asking for more to be allowed in tbh

that's not a comment on immigration , more a comment on people jumping on bandwagons  ..... how long has this refugee crises been going on ?  when did they suddenly become interested , was it  last week , last month , last year , the year before  .. 2011 when the war started ?

My daughters friend form school is Syrian , we helped host a fund raising event for Syrian people at the school early last year  ... it did quite well (raised over £15k) , but honestly nobody gave a **** about the Syrian people , they gave their money and forgot about it ... same as the people that sign this petition , the see a dead baby on the beach and it pricks their conscience and they sign a petition ... and then move on because Strictly come dancing has just started a new season

So you expect people to think about these issues 24/7?

If you do, you're a better man than me, and I'd consider myself pretty compassionate.

I expect people to think for themselves , which is the point I always make when I get annoyed about people jumping on bandwagons ...

 

I'm going to ignore the better man stuff , frankly that's just bollocks that I'm not interested in

[lapal_fan]

I'd be just as worried about the 430 ,000 asking for more to be allowed in tbh

that's not a comment on immigration , more a comment on people jumping on bandwagons  ..... how long has this refugee crises been going on ?  when did they suddenly become interested , was it  last week , last month , last year , the year before  .. 2011 when the war started ?

My daughters friend form school is Syrian , we helped host a fund raising event for Syrian people at the school early last year  ... it did quite well (raised over £15k) , but honestly nobody gave a **** about the Syrian people , they gave their money and forgot about it ... same as the people that sign this petition , the see a dead baby on the beach and it pricks their conscience and they sign a petition ... and then move on because Strictly come dancing has just started a new season

So you expect people to think about these issues 24/7?

If you do, you're a better man than me, and I'd consider myself pretty compassionate.

 

I expect people to think for themselves , which is the point I always make when I get annoyed about people jumping on bandwagons ...

 

I'm going to ignore the better man stuff , frankly that's just bollocks that I'm not interested in

What you need to consider is that not everyone is as well travelled as yourself.  You've seen much of this kind of stuff in the flesh (I imagine), you're older than quite a few users, you're in a different place in your life cycle to others.  People do think for themselves, but they've got to be exposed to this information initially for it to have any affect on them.

What isn't new to a 45 year old bloke will be new to a 20-something.  What is relevant and interesting to you, might not be interesting/relevant to others.

Whilst I don't watch it, I thought your sentence regarding bandwagons and Strictly Come Dancing was particularly irksome, hence my "better man bollocks".

[villaglint]

I dont really understand what you are angry about.

Surely any issue starts off niche and under exposed and then either fizzles out because it is addressed in some way or grows to a point where it reaches a "tipping point" where it reaches a wider conscience which leads to a public pressure being applied for change.

From everyone I have talked to about this issue it seems this photo has forced them to ask themselves the question "Am I comfortable in a world where people are now regularly washing up on the shores dead?" They have have thought about it and decided no and I am not comfortable with that. That seems like something we should be able to help with.

I dont see what is so annoying about that?

 

 

 

[tonyh29]

I dont really understand what you are angry about.

Surely any issue starts off niche and under exposed and then either fizzles out because it is addressed in some way or grows to a point where it reaches a "tipping point" where it reaches a wider conscience which leads to a public pressure being applied for change.

From everyone I have talked to about this issue it seems this photo has forced them to ask themselves the question "Am I comfortable in a world where people are now regularly washing up on the shores dead?" They have have thought about it and decided no and I am not comfortable with that. That seems like something we should be able to help with.

I dont see what is so annoying about that?

 

 

 

the same people on Facebook sharing the baby boy picture last week to show their caring side to all their friends , were the same people a few months ago sending the old "Muslims want to kill our values, share if you agree " shit previously .. and the same people who have now moved onto if we can give homes to refugees why cant we give homes to our brave troops

that's why I'm annoyed ( rather than angry )

I don't doubt there are people in this world who do things because its the right thing to do ..but I also doubt those 430,000 are those people

[osmark86]

Those seem like the same people that equate likes on social media to charity work.

[villaglint]

OK I'm with you.

But WOW do you not think it might be worth addressing the types of people you are "friends" with on Facebook if this is the type of stuff you are seeing.

I haven't personally seen any kind of flip flopping on that mega scale hence our differing views I guess. Maybe all of your friends are right wing newspaper editors?

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

To be honest all that map does to me is show where they would like to end up in an ideal situation.

In which case why have 'benefits' plastered all over certain parts of northern europe? (Don't France and Spain have welfare systems, too?)

It wasn't just to 'show where they would like to end up'.

I mean if you are looking to start a better, safer life, Why not go to the places where you think you are likely to get the best chance possible.

That I agree with - that's probably why the vast majority are looking to get to Germany where they believe they are going to be more welcomed and have a better chance (because of the public pronouncements of their politicians for the main).

Prior to the recent few months, though, the UNCHR's figures for asylum applications for Syrians from April 2011 to July 2015 have Germany, Syria and then Serbia (and Kosovo) receiving about 213 thousand of the 348 thousand.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean the aim of that map. I meant what that maps actually means to me. Obviously plastering the word benefits over certain countries is not meant to show immigration in a positive light. What I meant was that if those countries are offering you benefits then why wouldn't you head towards those. If you're going to completely uproot and move from your homeland why not go all out and try and get to the place you think is the best possible for your future.

As was discussed in the link to the Refugee Council research I posted on the previous page, most asylum seekers have traditionally been sold a 'package' of a trip to another country by their local people-smuggler with little to no actual input in which country they end up in. In that research, 2/3 hadn't even chosen to come to the UK, yet had ended here anyway. Now, clearly, we are seeing some of these recent asylum seekers travelling more independently across Europe, and it's fair to say that many more of them are at least having some choice in their destination. This is probably because there are too many asylum seekers for the people-smugglers to cope, and so that system is also breaking down. 

However, one thing we do know from the research is that for those who come to the UK, benefits are almost never the reason for them doing so. I really recommend reading that link, especially the 'executive summary'. Despite it seeming important to us (because we live here), the UK benefits system is not actually the talk of the town in Syria, Afghanistan, China or wherever. Most have no idea that we have a welfare state, and plenty can't even understand the concept, coming as they do from countries without any form of benefit system. Even some of those who do don't actually approve of benefits (and for these people it is of course particularly galling to discover they are forbidden from working). By far the main reason for choosing one particular country, amongst those who did choose a country, was the presence in that country of friends and family-members, or at least of a wide community of compatriots from the home country. 

[lapal_fan]

I dont really understand what you are angry about.

Surely any issue starts off niche and under exposed and then either fizzles out because it is addressed in some way or grows to a point where it reaches a "tipping point" where it reaches a wider conscience which leads to a public pressure being applied for change.

From everyone I have talked to about this issue it seems this photo has forced them to ask themselves the question "Am I comfortable in a world where people are now regularly washing up on the shores dead?" They have have thought about it and decided no and I am not comfortable with that. That seems like something we should be able to help with.

I dont see what is so annoying about that?

 

 

 

the same people on Facebook sharing the baby boy picture last week to show their caring side to all their friends , were the same people a few months ago sending the old "Muslims want to kill our values, share if you agree " shit previously .. and the same people who have now moved onto if we can give homes to refugees why cant we give homes to our brave troops

that's why I'm annoyed ( rather than angry )

I don't doubt there are people in this world who do things because its the right thing to do ..but I also doubt those 430,000 are those people

I understand that, I climbed up Ben Nevis earlier this year, organised by an ex-boxer who runs a charity called love-2-give, where the money he raises goes towards helping ill children.  All very admirable yes, until you go on his Facebook and he regularly shares Britain First posts and moans about Muslims taking over.  He even said to a group at the petrol station in Scotland "Haven't seen any Paki's up here, they mustn't like the cold, hahaha".   AND THEN, on the same weekend gave a "best person on the climb" award to, you guessed it, THE ONLY PAKISTANI GUY ON THE WALK.

Yea, that was annoying an offensive and stupid.  But people are people and it's the state of their education and background upbringing that made him that person.  Not many 6 month to 5 year olds at my kids nursery shouting that kind of stuff to the little black, brown & white kids standing next to one another.

Going off topic now.  Even the bandwagon jumpers are helping, regardless of how short their attention span to this problem is.

Edited September 8, 2015 by lapal_fan

[tonyh29]

I'd be just as worried about the 430 ,000 asking for more to be allowed in tbh

that's not a comment on immigration , more a comment on people jumping on bandwagons  ..... how long has this refugee crises been going on ?  when did they suddenly become interested , was it  last week , last month , last year , the year before  .. 2011 when the war started ?

My daughters friend form school is Syrian , we helped host a fund raising event for Syrian people at the school early last year  ... it did quite well (raised over £15k) , but honestly nobody gave a **** about the Syrian people , they gave their money and forgot about it ... same as the people that sign this petition , the see a dead baby on the beach and it pricks their conscience and they sign a petition ... and then move on because Strictly come dancing has just started a new season

So you expect people to think about these issues 24/7?

If you do, you're a better man than me, and I'd consider myself pretty compassionate.

 

I expect people to think for themselves , which is the point I always make when I get annoyed about people jumping on bandwagons ...

 

I'm going to ignore the better man stuff , frankly that's just bollocks that I'm not interested in

What you need to consider is that not everyone is as well travelled as yourself.  You've seen much of this kind of stuff in the flesh (I imagine), you're older than quite a few users, you're in a different place in your life cycle to others.  People do think for themselves, but they've got to be exposed to this information initially for it to have any affect on them.

What isn't new to a 45 year old bloke will be new to a 20-something.  What is relevant and interesting to you, might not be interesting/relevant to others.

Whilst I don't watch it, I thought your sentence regarding bandwagons and Strictly Come Dancing was particularly irksome, hence my "better man bollocks".

it's possible I have become cynical as result of age (and travels)  ..I'm sure I've told the story on here before about the crew I meet in Djibouti who had been transporting UN grain to Ethiopia  , they could only offload once Djibouti had haggled and taken their cut , it then went on lorries to Ethiopia where it was processed , a cut was taken and then the remainder was driven back to Djibouti to be loaded back on the same boat and transported elsewhere to be sold  on behalf of the Ethiopian government  ... whilst the people still starve  .... but Ethiopia is so 1984 nobody really remembers it any more , apart from Geldolf who probably sold a lot of records off the back of it and can donate one of the man rooms in his mansion to refugees as a result  (told you I was  a cynic)

this all probably has little relevance to the current crises , other than maybe teeing in with my opening post in this thread which was find a solution  rather than a short term fix

[StefanAVFC]

It's cultural isn't it?

People want to come to England because they have the best chance with the language.

It's naive to think that middle class, wealthy Syrian people are fleeing their homes for a £50 weekly welfare payment.