El Zen Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, choffer said: Does she have a flag? Edited October 11, 2022 by El Zen 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 hours ago, choffer said: Toilet paper! Toilet paper in our time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted October 13, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 13, 2022 As summaries go, this one is close to perfect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 It is surely time to look at the reality where Labour are in power with the largest majority ever recorded, I don't see any other outcome. They will do a vastly better job than the tories but the bar is low. My only gripe is about PR - if they don't include it on their manifesto and I think that's going to be the case, it will be a huge mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 14, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 14, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jareth said: My only gripe is about PR - if they don't include it on their manifesto and I think that's going to be the case, it will be a huge mistake. The larger the projected majority, the less chance that will happen but on the point itself I agree. If its there they get my vote, if its not, they won't. I live in a safe Labour seat anyway so I have no allusions to my non-Labour vote affecting any result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 14, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jareth said: the largest majority ever recorded, I don't see any other outcome No chance of the largest majority ever. They’ll do well to get a majority at all. It’s a massive task. The country currently loathing the tories isn’t the same as the country actually deciding to vote for Labour. I mean take VT as a sample. In the bolitics threads Starmer and co seem to get mostly slagged off most of the time, so I’m not sure there’s necessarily an enthusiasm for Labour to the extent there would need to be for a massive majority. That might change and I hope the tories are exterminated electorally, personally speaking, but so far the polls more show how people see the tories right now, rather than how things will be at the next election Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, blandy said: No chance of the largest majority ever. They’ll do well to get a majority at all. It’s a massive task. The country currently loathing the tories isn’t the same as the country actually deciding to vote for Labour. I mean take VT as a sample. In the bolitics threads Starmer and co seem to get mostly slagged off most of the time, so I’m not sure there’s necessarily an enthusiasm for Labour to the extent there would need to be for a massive majority. That might change and I hope the tories are exterminated electorally, personally speaking, but so far the polls more show how people see the tories right now, rather than how things will be at the next election Having just checked, the biggest share of the vote for either main party ever, hovered just under 50%. I honestly think we are very close to a general election, and the longer we are made to wait the worse it will be for the tories. Fully agree though that Labour are hardly inspiring anyone, but with the tory vote so utterly damaged, and it is completely damaged now (robbing their own voters of their property aspirations) with FPTP Labour need only have their supporters turn out and the motivation for your average voter for ejecting the tories has never been greater. Which is all a bit why I'm thinking what's next and if Labour with a warped massive majority is going to have some downsides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 You can't count on anything yet. This is a nation of dogshit eaters, forelock touchers and types that couldn't work out they were being lied to about who was unelectable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, blandy said: No chance of the largest majority ever. They’ll do well to get a majority at all. It’s a massive task. The country currently loathing the tories isn’t the same as the country actually deciding to vote for Labour. I mean take VT as a sample. In the bolitics threads Starmer and co seem to get mostly slagged off most of the time, so I’m not sure there’s necessarily an enthusiasm for Labour to the extent there would need to be for a massive majority. That might change and I hope the tories are exterminated electorally, personally speaking, but so far the polls more show how people see the tories right now, rather than how things will be at the next election While I think you're right to preach caution, it does feel like something has switched a bit. Until a few months ago with single-figure Labour leads, I'd have definitely agreed with you. But I think feeling for the first time actually has switched in large part from "we hate this lot" to "we hate this lot and we would prefer the other lot". They do still need to do more, and talk of "largest majority in history" is (at this stage) fanciful stuff - but it's hard to see what comes up in the next year or so that moves the dial back the other way and doesn't give Labour a pretty comfortable working majority. The one scenario where I think it is at risk would be them ditching Truss, getting a new telegenic leader in place, who distances themself from all that has gone before (again), pretty quickly calls an election to get a new mandate and the electorate decide that the new person should have a go. It's not hard to see Sunak or Tugendhat standing up and saying "I said all this would happen, therefore you should trust me over this wooden bloke" and getting the benefit of the doubt. But even that plan requires MPs to cut the membership out completely in the run up to an election (meaning they alienate their entire canvassing base) to coronate somebody, or they go back to the membership again and end up putting the ghost of Fred West or the Eye of Sauron in charge. Edited October 14, 2022 by ml1dch 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 14, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, ml1dch said: The one scenario where I think it is at risk would be them ditching Truss, getting a new telegenic leader in place, who distances themself from all that has gone before (again), pretty quickly calls an election to get a new mandate and the electorate decide that the new person should have a go. It's not hard to see Sunak or Tugendhat standing up and saying "I said all this would happen, therefore you should trust me over this wooden bloke" and getting the benefit of the doubt. Tugendhat eventually backed Truss over Sunak, just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 minute ago, bickster said: Tugendhat eventually backed Truss over Sunak, just saying I know, he wouldn't be a minister today if he hadn't. But he's probably as close to a compromise candidate as they're going to get (apart from Wallace obvs.), and at least he can point to a recent history of saying that this stuff might not be a good idea. He'd definitely bring the Sunak side back into the tent, which the party would need if they were going to have any chance in the next election. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 14, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 14, 2022 26 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I think feeling for the first time actually has switched in large part from "we hate this lot" to "we hate this lot and we would prefer the other lot". Maybe it has, though I'm not convinced personally, but I live in my own little world. Say you're right, though. There's some things at play. Firstly they will U turn on the tax cuts for businesses and the rich. Secondly tory MPs will never vote themselves out of government, so there's not going to be an election any time soon. Thirdly Truss and Kwarteng have no credibility either with the markets or with their party, so they're hostages to (mis)fortune. There's going to be chaos for a sustained period and maybe personnel changes at the top, so like you say Labour in 2 years will be up against different people and in different circumstances. What if Indyref 2 happens in Scotland? What if the war in Ukraine ends or spreads? What if the relationship with the EU improves or worsens? I think I'm basically saying even if people currently actively prefer Labour, so much is going to be different come election time one way or another. I've been saying and posting for ages that both there will be an implosion with the Tories and that Starmer's tactics are and have been logical and focused on doing the things needed to persuade people who switched to the Tories to switch back and to pick up votes generally, so it would be nice if that happened, but I still think it'll need cooperation with other parties in the election to maximise the losses of tory seats needed for there not to be a hung parliament, or narrow tory win even. The tory libertarian throbbers currently just about controlling their direction are about to lose that control and a less mad direction will bring them back from doing more destructive budget stuff like they just did, so Labour still has a lot to do, but they've come a long way in a short time, given their absolute rout last time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 I *think* this is the first time he's joined in with this meme. Happy to be corrected though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 NHS problems, 2005 style. Angrily shouting at the Prime Minister because they can only book an appointment with their GP in the next 48 hours and not further ahead. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 16, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, ml1dch said: NHS problems, 2005 style. Angrily shouting at the Prime Minister because they can only book an appointment with their GP in the next 48 hours and not further ahead. Imagine any of the Prime Ministers since, sitting down in with that audience? Brown might have (and probably failed) but the Tories would never have dared Starmer should take note of that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 16, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 16, 2022 Yeah just been watching that myself. It’s startling just how much Blair engages with the audience, taking on board their criticisms and acknowledging where something has gone wrong*. Not just repeating the same thing he’s been told to say or stating something else that has nothing to do with the subject. *although as hinted at, it would be interesting to hear what the same people think of the appointment turn around time now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Apparently the biggest lead on a "best Prime Minister" poll in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Just now, ml1dch said: Apparently the biggest lead on a "best Prime Minister" poll in history. I think that's just the biggest lead Starmer has ever had reading the article as that refers to Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said: I think that's just the biggest lead Starmer has ever had reading the article as that refers to Johnson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Yeah but any other leader would +50 by now, etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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