HanoiVillan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 That Phillips is running at all really shows how weak the Labour right is, both institutionally and intellectually. She has never held a shadow cabinet position, is vastly inexperienced, and stumbled at the weekend at the hands of 'Teddy Bear' Marr when she seemed to suggest she might support campaigning to rejoin the EU, before hurriedly backtracking on the idea. Her presence in the race signifies that the Labour right have no intention to put forward any actual ideas, merely to troll and criticise the other candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, KentVillan said: How about Tactics Tim? Spot on. Overly emotional but often seeming ridiculously poorly informed. Could just see her tearing up and chucking a gilet down on the dispatch box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Her presence in the race signifies that the Labour right have no intention to put forward any actual ideas, merely to troll and criticise the other candidates. I think the Labour right will all back Starmer (including Phillips), and Phillips is just in the race to get airtime to attack Long-Bailey, and boost her chances of a front bench role. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: saw an article the other week that referred to her as the member of parliament for Jess Phillips Favourite words: I, me. Favourite paper: mirror. Favourite flower: narcissus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 37 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: That Phillips is running at all really shows how weak the Labour right is, both institutionally and intellectually. She has never held a shadow cabinet position, is vastly inexperienced, and stumbled at the weekend at the hands of 'Teddy Bear' Marr when she seemed to suggest she might support campaigning to rejoin the EU, before hurriedly backtracking on the idea. Her presence in the race signifies that the Labour right have no intention to put forward any actual ideas, merely to troll and criticise the other candidates. A bit like Corbyn when he became leader. She's really a token presence since many in the party are so dead set on getting a woman in power, regardless of how capable they actually are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 39 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: That Phillips is running at all really shows how weak the Labour right is, both institutionally and intellectually. She has never held a shadow cabinet position, is vastly inexperienced, and stumbled at the weekend at the hands of 'Teddy Bear' Marr when she seemed to suggest she might support campaigning to rejoin the EU, before hurriedly backtracking on the idea. Her presence in the race signifies that the Labour right have no intention to put forward any actual ideas, merely to troll and criticise the other candidates. Works within current politics in the current climate then... She's a mouth piece who will get headlines from throwing Boris under the bus every chance she gets The problem with her is she's too polarizing, you'll know her opinion that's for sure, Corbyns fence sitting will be long gone, whether or not that opinion is popular enough to get them power is hard to tell, personally I think she'll be regarded as a gobby brummie bint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7, 2020 Philips is popular with a few lobbying elements. She was always going to be pushed. She'll be going for a front bench position unless the right of the party is crushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2020 51 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: That Phillips is running at all really shows how weak the Labour right is, both institutionally and intellectually. She has never held a shadow cabinet position, is vastly inexperienced, and stumbled at the weekend at the hands of 'Teddy Bear' Marr when she seemed to suggest she might support campaigning to rejoin the EU, before hurriedly backtracking on the idea. Her presence in the race signifies that the Labour right have no intention to put forward any actual ideas, merely to troll and criticise the other candidates. Replace right for left and most of that describes Corbyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) One of my gripes when she was grandstanding during the Brexit debates was she sort of stood up and said I don't know parliamentary procedure and blah blah blah .. you're an MP and have been for 4 years ,your ignorance isn't a badge of honour, spend a little less time using your kid as a prop , working for Lord Ashcroft or writing books and learn parliamentary procedure and then people might take you seriously Edited January 7, 2020 by tonyh29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: That Phillips is running at all really shows how weak the Labour right is, For my education, why is she of "the Labour right"? My perception, perhaps wrongly, is that sure , she is not part of the Cult of Corbynites (and that's a very good thing indeed) but in terms of practical policy, views and so on she seems far more sane, and totally "Labour" - but not right wing. Anyway, it matters not - while Labour members and supporters are busy calling each other out for being of the right, or of the left, or whatever, they're never going to get power and be able to actually make anyone's life better. They need a leader who can get elected as PM. I doubt Phillips is that, but she's probably better placed than half the candidates so far. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 A lot of people in the London media/political bubble wrongly regard Phillips as an authentic working class voice. The class structure of modern Birmingham (or indeed anywhere outside London) isn’t well understood, so they just hear the accent and assume she basically dug her way out of a factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, blandy said: For my education, why is she of "the Labour right"? My perception, perhaps wrongly, is that sure , she is for not part of the Cult of Corbynites (and that's a very good thing indeed) but in terms of practical policy, views and so on she seems far more sane, and totally "Labour" - but not right wing. Anyway, it matters not - while Labour members and supporters are busy calling each other out for being of the right, or of the left, or whatever, they're never going to get power and be able to actually make anyone's life better. They need a leader who can get elected as PM. I doubt Phillips is that, but she's probably better placed than half the candidates so far. I agree with this, by the way. She talks a lot of nonsense, but ideologically she is in a place that has a long tradition in the Labour Party - certainly not the “closet Tory” that her detractors within the party paint her as. The weirdest thing about the cult of Corbyn is how it has presented these kinds of politicians as somehow a new virus in the Labour movement that has only existed since Blair. It’s as if people like Gaitskell never existed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 7, 2020 I quite like Phillips to be honest but doesn't strike me as the kind of leader Labour should go for. Too many people hate her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2020 I didn't see all of the Marr interview with Philips but I did walk through the living room when he asked her about the free broadband for all. She got that bit spot on I thought, she didn't see how it was deliverable and she didn't see it as a priority when there were so many homeless people and families in abject poverty and schools begging for money. She saw the priorities correctly imo. The broadband policy was laughable, everyone saw through it straight away, well apart from the Labour Leadership, obviously. This doesn't make her right wing, nor does it make her a "fishwife" and all the other shite that was thrown at her over the weekend from the "right on", politically correct, ultra left of the party. Massive bellendry as usual on their part, typically misogynistic garbage from the self appointed keepers of political correctness I don't think she's the answer to the leadership of the party right now but I do think they need to give her some prominence to attack Johnson and his cohorts. Essentially, she won't take any shit and she'll chuck it back in spades. Labour need someone who actually will stand up and be counted. Not Barry the bloody Gardener, who despite his many many many TV appearances, seems to have resonated with absolutely no-one in the country at all EDIT: I also learned from the Marr interview that she resigned from the Labour Party over the Iraq War but apparently that still makes her a "Blairite" in the eyes of the momentum knobs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, KentVillan said: I think the Labour right will all back Starmer (including Phillips), and Phillips is just in the race to get airtime to attack Long-Bailey, and boost her chances of a front bench role. Yes, I think you're right. These races have tended to remain fairly static after their starts, and Starmer and Long-Bailey are comfortably ahead, so barring any major gaffes or disasters it will probably be between the two of them. As you say, if the polling remains like that the right of the party will fall behind Starmer to ensure Long-Bailey doesn't win. Whether Phillips would drop out and endorse hum, I'm much less sure. As to whether she gets a shadow cabinet role, the next leader will have to decide between two different points of view. On the one hand, she's an absolute loose cannon who loves running her mouth, but on the other maybe it's better to have her inside the tent pissing out rather than the other way round. 43 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: A bit like Corbyn when he became leader. 30 minutes ago, bickster said: Replace right for left and most of that describes Corbyn True that Corbyn didn't have any shadow cabinet experience, but definitely not true that he didn't have any ideas. I appreciate that neither of you liked many or any of those ideas, but the fact is he won in 2015 largely because he presented a different idea of what the party should be early on in the process, and people were ready for a change. So - and I guess this is a hostage to fortune, but I'm fairly confident - it's not really like Corbyn, because he won and she won't. 25 minutes ago, blandy said: For my education, why is she of "the Labour right"? My perception, perhaps wrongly, is that sure , she is for not part of the Cult of Corbynites (and that's a very good thing indeed) but in terms of practical policy, views and so on she seems far more sane, and totally "Labour" - but not right wing. Anyway, it matters not - while Labour members and supporters are busy calling each other out for being of the right, or of the left, or whatever, they're never going to get power and be able to actually make anyone's life better. They need a leader who can get elected as PM. I doubt Phillips is that, but she's probably better placed than half the candidates so far. 14 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I agree with this, by the way. She talks a lot of nonsense, but ideologically she is in a place that has a long tradition in the Labour Party - certainly not the “closet Tory” that her detractors within the party paint her as. The weirdest thing about the cult of Corbyn is how it has presented these kinds of politicians as somehow a new virus in the Labour movement that has only existed since Blair. It’s as if people like Gaitskell never existed. Yes, I agree with you both as well. She's not really Right in her voting record. In fact, despite her frequent and loud criticisms of the Corbyn leadership, she rarely rebelled in the last parliament. However, the Labour Right are the group within the party who are supporting her candidacy, and that's why I'm talking about them here (you could argue that Phillips seemingly being an unreliable standard bearer is further evidence of their weakness). Edited January 7, 2020 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: but definitely not true that he didn't have any ideas. Is it true that JP doesn't have any ideas? I mean she's written two books which as far as I'm aware is two more than youknowwho. I've not read them btw nor do I wish to right now. I just think "She doesn't have any ideas" is yet more misogynistic crap tbh Corbyn didn't really have any ideas at this stage in the proceedings, it was just his turn to stand from the small group that were always on the naughty step, he was more concerned with getting enough MPs to sign his nomination papers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, bickster said: Is it true that JP doesn't have any ideas? I mean she's written two books which as far as I'm aware is two more than youknowwho. I've not read them btw nor do I wish to right now. I just think "She doesn't have any ideas" is yet more misogynistic crap tbh Corbyn didn't really have any ideas at this stage in the proceedings, it was just his turn to stand from the small group that were always on the naughty step, he was more concerned with getting enough MPs to sign his nomination papers It is not 'misogynistic crap', and that is why I'm not saying it about either of the other two female candidates for the leadership, both of whom are running on clear ideas about what the party should be, who it should appeal to and what the route to victory is. Kind of baffled that you would say that to be honest. I'm allowed to come to own views of the candidates, and if I don't rate one of them, you don't get to decide that the reason I don't rate her is because she's a woman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, bickster said: Corbyn didn't really have any ideas Corbyn's had the same ideas since 1970. They haven't changed, they haven't altered as the world has altered, they will never change. They must not be questioned, or challenged, or ridiculed, or otherwise dissented from - or you're a Tory and can **** off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm not saying it about either of the other two female candidates for the leadership, both of whom are running on clear ideas about what the party should be, who it should appeal to and what the route to victory is. Arguably one of them (Lisa Nandy) is doing that and one (RLB) isn't. I think JP is doing it, too. RLB seems to be making some of the same mistakes as Corbyn, already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, blandy said: Arguably one of them (Lisa Nandy) is doing that and one (RLB) isn't. I think JP is doing it, too. RLB seems to be making some of the same mistakes as Corbyn, already. Long-Bailey has set out her stall quite clearly. I wouldn't expect you to like it, but that doesn't mean she hasn't done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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