wazzap24 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mic09 said: There are 195 countries in the world. Can you name 15 countries that are better to live in? And, as a free person (because we live in such a country - again, relatively to others) why don't you move to those places if UK isn't one of the best places to live in? Because people die in rafts and in back of trucks because they want to come to live here. Denmark Switzerland Finland Australia Iceland Austria Netherlands Germany New Zealand Sweden Norway Estonia US Japan Spain Slovenia Canada They are the top 17 countries that rank higher than we do in the quality of life index. I didn’t make up the index, but I assume the people that did know what they are on about and it’s made up of lots of different measures. I can’t be arsed with the ‘why don’t you move comment’, it’s a lazy argument. We are not one of the best countries in the world, it’s a nonsense to suggest we are. You might love this country (I do too to be fair) and my own quality of life is excellent, but that is because I am fortunate enough to be gainfully employed and in good health etc etc. My own circumstances are not reflective of our society as a whole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted September 23, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2019 We're getting them all today, aren't we? Nobody who went to a private school can point out that private schools are a bad idea. If you don't like it here, why don't you go live there? Sweepstake on what platitude comes next? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, wazzap24 said: Denmark Switzerland Finland Australia Iceland Austria Netherlands Germany New Zealand Sweden Norway Estonia US Japan Spain Slovenia Canada They are the top 17 countries that rank higher than we do in the quality of life index. I didn’t make up the index, but I assume the people that did know what they are on about and it’s made up of lots of different measures. I can’t be arsed with the ‘why don’t you move comment’, it’s a lazy argument. We are not one of the best countries in the world, it’s a nonsense to suggest we are. You might love this country (I do too to be fair) and my own quality of life is excellent, but that is because I am fortunate enough to be gainfully employed and in good health etc etc. My own circumstances are not reflective of our society as a whole. As someone who has moved here from a different country, I disagree with you and I think that you are not being appreciative enough of the small things even the poorest people in the UK enjoy. But just like you do, I live a comfortable life and I don't know what it's like on the streets. What I do know it can't be much better in Romania, Belarus, Portugal, Greece, Brazil, China, outskirts of Detroit, or a hut in the middle of Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mic09 said: As someone who has moved here from a different country, I disagree with you and I think that you are not being appreciative enough of the small things even the poorest people in the UK enjoy. But just like you do, I live a comfortable life and I don't know what it's like on the streets. What I do know it can't be much better in Romania, Belarus, Portugal, Greece, Brazil, China, outskirts of Detroit, or a hut in the middle of Africa. I think I’ll respectfully agree to disagree with you on this. As I said, I don’t doubt for one second that plenty of people in other countries have it worse than we do - so we agree there. That is still very far away from being ‘one of the best’ and we aren’t going to change each other’s minds on that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Keir Starmer. I like him and think he should be leader of the Labour Party. He seems be an actual grown up who like, knows stuff about stuff and everything. I appreciate knowing stuff about stuff isn’t what gets you elected these days, but if it were - I think he’d do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 it's a lovely list but generally speaking , I'd say you can only really answer that if you try living somewhere else in the world , those "index " things are pretty meaningless ..its all very romantic to think you'd rather live in Denmark or Slovenia but I bet the reality isn't as close to the index as you want to think .... Japan quality of life ? it even has its own word for death from work stress " Karoshi " no amount of Bukakke parties is going to free you from the stress of working there and Tokyo would involve you living in a shoe cupboard for high rent yeah the Uk may be a bit shit at times , but lets not kid ourselves we'd rather live in Estonia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, blandy said: I don't get that point. Before the Min wage, they could set their wages to what they wanted. Now they have to set them to a legal level which is the same as the legal level for Waterstones or HMV or whoever. It's not the min wage that gives them their advantage, it's lack of high street rental, economy of scale, the internet generally, range of stock, door to door delivery etc. surely. But they also outsource their manufacturing labour to counties with much lower labour costs. Even with the cost of shipping it still works out much cheaper to produce most products in a country in the Far East and ship it back than to pay workers UK wages. I support a generous minimum wage but you have to acknowledge it does change the labour market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 23, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, LondonLax said: they also outsource their manufacturing labour What do they manufacture? Not much is it? - Firesticks and those book reader thingies? The sort of item that is made by Google and Apple and Huwawei...abroad. Sure they're a seller of online goods, a provider of online TV, like Netflix and a maker of gadgets, to an extent - I don't think the wage thing is a factor in terms of competition in the UK. I see other factors as being the issue in the UK. Their practices in dealing with people who sell on there as independent retailers and their lower costs from dominant market position. I'm not a big fan of Amazon, but I see min wage as (in their case) kind of irrelevant to their practices or dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted September 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2019 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 minute ago, blandy said: What do they manufacture? Not much is it? - Firesticks and those book reader thingies? The sort of item that is made by Google and Apple and Huwawei...abroad. Sure they're a seller of online goods, a provider of online TV, like Netflix and a maker of gadgets, to an extent - I don't think the wage thing is a factor in terms of competition in the UK. I see other factors as being the issue in the UK. Their practices in dealing with people who sell on there as independent retailers and their lower costs from dominant market position. I'm not a big fan of Amazon, but I see min wage as (in their case) kind of irrelevant to their practices or dominance. I wasn’t particularly referencing Amazon, more the general trend of globalisation to move operations away from countries with high labour costs into countries with much lower costs of labour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, bickster said: Independent Prep school until he was 11, this aint no fully state educated man of the people either Family of workers and academics, no nanny there. No choice for the young Corbyn either. Then a mostly state funded school then a polytechnic. Not sounding very Rees-Mogg to me. 1 hour ago, blandy said: Isn't that even worse (if you're a Labour Momentum type)? Eton and those ones are funded by poshos and whatnot paying wedges for their offspring to get taught how to wreck the Country. Corbz's one gets/got money from the taxpayer to do the same. Priveleged kids getting a leg up from the state. None of them pay any/many taxes. Better surely to take away their charitable status and stop giving them dosh than abolish them, if that's your (not you Xann, but anyone) political bent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_aided_school Find it offensive by the standards of the time? Or by the standards of the Heil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, ml1dch said: And those are the good points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Even Boris couldn't have put it better if he tried. But than again, he can't get much right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Mic09 said: It's all relative isn't it. Even people on minimal wage can go to the shops to buy food, buy some clothes and go on a holiday once in a while. UK isn't a place where people starve on the street, and even the poorest have places to turn to and jobs to apply for. Not that we shouldn't aim for much better - we always have to - but we live in one of the best places in the world in the best time in history. I feel that Labour is overplaying the "class war" card with the school policy, and voters don't really buy into that as much as they would have done 20/30 years ago. Reason why they were successful under Blair is that he moved away from that rhetoric to an extent. Perhaps you need to get out a bit more? I live in one of the places regarded as ‘best’ within the UK, with the UK being one of the best countries. But there is real poverty here, in and around those million pound sea view houses. The food banks can’t cope, last week our local football club filled a 100kg dry food gap in what they urgently needed. Half the people using that food bank have jobs. To suggest they can afford a holiday once in a while, well I’ll put that down to youthful naivety rather than a deliberate insult. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 23, 2019 Anyone walking around Brum in the last 2 years would be all too aware at how much life in the UK isn't all milk and honey. And I've not actually done that in over a year so I can only assume it's gotten worse in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 33 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Absolutely brilliant summary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Ex Sun reporter doesn’t like Labour colour me **** shocked scumbag 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: But there is real poverty here, in and around those million pound sea view houses. The food banks can’t cope, last week our local football club filled a 100kg dry food gap in what they urgently needed. Half the people using that food bank have jobs. To suggest they can afford a holiday once in a while, well I’ll put that down to youthful naivety rather than a deliberate insult. Did I say there wasn't poverty? Did I not say we have plenty of work to do as a society? If you can put my view to youthful naivity, that's fine. I can put your pessimistic outlook to a lack of a TV or Internet (although you are positing online ). Have a look at poverty in most of Asia, Africa, south America. Have a look at genocide, dictatorships, people eating dogs on the street, child survival rate being criminally low, military coups, wars, drones killing people from thousands of miles away. Then go to the Villa, throw your half eaten burger in the bin and see that, compared to most places in the world, UK really is a good place to be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 If you have money. If you have money. If you have money. There are people with no money. Foodbanks. Rough sleepers. People that don’t have a little holiday. I don’t need to look to Africa for poverty, there are people living in tents in the park just down from my office. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: If you have money. If you have money. If you have money. There are people with no money. Foodbanks. Rough sleepers. People that don’t have a little holiday. I don’t need to look to Africa for poverty, there are people living in tents in the park just down from my office. And compared to most palaces, most people do have money. And those with little money, can afford most basic things. And those who have no money have places and people to turn to for help. The person living in the tent would have no tent in Africa and would have died in Bahamas or India because a f***ing tsunami would wipe him out, if he wasn't executed with an AK47. I feel you are arguing a silly point. Yes, there is poverty. Yes, we need to help these people. Do we do enough? No. Can we do more? Yes. But for the love of God, are we really complaining about life while positing on our iPhones and driving our German cars? People are literally dying to come over here. mother's and father's and babies are killed to see the white cliffs of Dover.Yet all we see is shit. Let's be a bit more grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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