The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[wazzap24]

2 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

It's all relative isn't it.

Even people on minimal wage can go to the shops to buy food, buy some clothes and go on a holiday once in a while.

UK isn't a place where people starve on the street, and even the poorest have places to turn to and jobs to apply for. 

Not that we shouldn't aim for much better - we always have to - but we live in one of the best places in the world in the best time in history.

I feel that Labour is overplaying the "class war" card with the school policy, and voters don't really buy into that as much as they would have done 20/30 years ago. Reason why they were successful under Blair is that he moved away from that rhetoric to an extent. 

Errrrm, not sure if serious? 

I mean yeah, if you ignore all the stats on homelessness, food bank usage, child poverty, record levels of personal debt, wages not rising in line with inflation, etc etc........the list literally goes on and on and on.  

[Mic09]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

But anyway, here they all are, all the public schoolboys, telling us what we can and can't do, with their sense of superiority and entitlement and a  "the rules don't apply to us" outlook.

 

If one was to look at it with a cynical eye, we are little peasants being steered by the overlords in London who are so far detached from what a real life is they don't even try to hide it anymore.

It doesn't matter if you they are Tories, Labour, green, red or blue, they live off our money and don't bring much value to us other than receiving an outrageous pay to think of policies that aim to bring votes rather than bring effects, or like in the case of Brexit, mess around for 3 years with little effect. (And spending billions while doing so).

But most of them do not give a shit about you or me.

Again, that's a look with a cynical eye.

Someone more optimistic might call it parliamentary democracy.

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

Errrrm, not sure if serious? 

I mean yeah, if you ignore all the stats on homelessness, food bank usage, child poverty, record levels of personal debt, wages not rising in line with inflation, etc etc........the list literally goes on and on and on.  

I said we need to do much better and work hard to improve our country. I said it's all relative.

But you cannot disagree that this is one of the best places to live in the whole world in what definately is the best time in history.

[blandy]

37 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

one of the competitive advantages it gave them was their lower staffing costs versus traditional employers, so perhaps minimum wage played a role?

I don't get that point. Before the Min wage, they could set their wages to what they wanted. Now they have to set them to a legal level which is the same as the legal level for Waterstones or HMV or whoever. It's not the min wage that gives them their advantage, it's lack of high street rental, economy of scale, the internet generally, range of stock, door to door delivery etc. surely.

 

[bickster]

54 minutes ago, Xann said:

Corbyn went to a voluntary aided Grammar school and they're usually majority state funded.

That ain't no Eton.

Independent Prep school until he was 11, this aint no fully state educated man of the people either

[HanoiVillan]

33 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Even if it's 0.5%, they have their rights.

I'm not aware of anybody suggesting that they don't have rights.

[Mic09]

4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm not aware of anybody suggesting that they don't have rights.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood the post. I read that you suggested it's a small minority, but I feel even if it's 1 person in the whole country the policy to scrap private education is a step in the wrong direction.

I understood that you thought numbers have an influence on that, I feel the numbers are irrelevant.

[KentVillan]

13 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't get that point. Before the Min wage, they could set their wages to what they wanted. Now they have to set them to a legal level which is the same as the legal level for Waterstones or HMV or whoever. It's not the min wage that gives them their advantage, it's lack of high street rental, economy of scale, the internet generally, range of stock, door to door delivery etc. surely.

 

My point was that gig economy companies don't pay minimum wage. Hence the competitive advantage over businesses that do. They use loopholes to disguise employment.

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

Sorry, I must have misunderstood the post. I read that you suggested it's a small minority, but I feel even if it's 1 person in the whole country the policy to scrap private education is a step in the wrong direction.

I understood that you thought numbers have an influence on that, I feel the numbers are irrelevant.

My initial post was disputing the use of the term 'the masses', which appeared to be being used to describe 'people attending, or paying for their children to attend, private school'. I vigorously disagree that such a group can be describe as 'the masses', and it was in that context that the numbers came up. Since then, the original poster has clarified that he didn't mean 'the masses' in the way I interpreted it, but instead in a way meaning 'the whole of society', so it's of no relevance really.

What I'm puzzled about now is your use of the word 'rights', in responding to me. There is no 'right' to a private education, for obvious reasons.

[wazzap24]

21 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I said we need to do much better and work hard to improve our country. I said it's all relative.

But you cannot disagree that this is one of the best places to live in the whole world in what definately is the best time in history.

UK is 18/77 on the most recent quality of life index. 

So yes, there are (much) worse places to be, but one of the best? No chance, not even close. 

Best time in history is subjective. In some ways yes, I suppose it is. 

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

My initial post was disputing the use of the term 'the masses', which appeared to be being used to describe 'people attending, or paying for their children to attend, private school'. I vigorously disagree that such a group can be describe as 'the masses', and it was in that context that the numbers came up. Since then, the original poster has clarified that he didn't mean 'the masses' in the way I interpreted it, but instead in a way meaning 'the whole of society', so it's of no relevance really.

What I'm puzzled about now is your use of the word 'rights', in responding to me. There is no 'right' to a private education, for obvious reasons.

Thanks for clarifying the top bit.

As for the rights, I meant the right to give your kids an education you see fit for them and parents feel is best for them.

[Wainy316]

5 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

It's like every time Labour get close to having a chance at power they think ..**** we don't actually want to be in government , quick come up with a bonkers plan to sabotage it.

Sounds like Villa defending a lead

[KentVillan]

24 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

Errrrm, not sure if serious? 

I mean yeah, if you ignore all the stats on homelessness, food bank usage, child poverty, record levels of personal debt, wages not rising in line with inflation, etc etc........the list literally goes on and on and on.  

Just on the personal debt point - this upward trend is a global phenomenon across all kinds of different economies. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_debt (sort by 2017)

Hard to pin this on austerity or right-wing economics when the same thing has been happening in Sweden, Netherlands, Norway, Canada, Finland, France, etc. since the mid 90s.

Germany is the only country that bucks the trend, and that seems to be a cultural aversion to debt. Ireland, Portugal and Spain are trending downwards recently, but that's because they experienced gigantic crashes which transformed consumer and lender risk appetites.

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, wazzap24 said:

UK is 18/77 on the most recent quality of life index. 

So yes, there are (much) worse places to be, but one of the best? No chance, not even close. 

Best time in history is subjective. In some ways yes, I suppose it is. 

I doubt anyone can say that they have it worse than their grandparents or great grandparents. We are much better off in terms of food availability, cheap clothing, access to information, charities, healthcare etc. 

And we need to appreciate that all things considered, we have it very well in this country compared to many places out there. 

[Wainy316]

30 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I said we need to do much better and work hard to improve our country. I said it's all relative.

But you cannot disagree that this is one of the best places to live in the whole world in what definately is the best time in history.

Just shows what a shit world we live in

[HanoiVillan]

5 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Thanks for clarifying the top bit.

As for the rights, I meant the right to give your kids an education you see fit for them and parents feel is best for them.

That's my point. There is no such 'right'. Children have the right to an education; parents do not have the right to a private school education for their children. You cannot have 'rights' to luxury goods. If a parent has enough money for private school fees, they can send their child to private school. If they lose their job, and cannot afford the fees any more, they cannot send their child to that school, and they should see how far they can get through the door with the language of 'rights' at that point.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Xann said:

Corbyn went to a voluntary aided Grammar school and they're usually majority state funded.

That ain't no Eton.

Isn't that even worse (if you're a Labour Momentum type)?

Eton and those ones are funded by poshos and whatnot paying wedges for their offspring to get taught how to wreck the Country. Corbz's one gets/got money from the taxpayer to do the same. Priveleged kids getting a leg up from the state.

None of them pay any/many taxes.

Better surely to take away their charitable status and stop giving them dosh than abolish them, if that's your (not you Xann, but anyone) political bent

 

[mjmooney]

12 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I doubt anyone can say that they have it worse than their grandparents or great grandparents. We are much better off in terms of food availability, cheap clothing, access to information, charities, healthcare etc. 

And we need to appreciate that all things considered, we have it very well in this country compared to many places out there. 

You've never had it so good, eh? Ungrateful shirking bastards. 

[wazzap24]

9 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Just on the personal debt point - this upward trend is a global phenomenon across all kinds of different economies. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_debt (sort by 2017)

Hard to pin this on austerity or right-wing economics when the same thing has been happening in Sweden, Netherlands, Norway, Canada, Finland, France, etc. since the mid 90s.

Germany is the only country that bucks the trend, and that seems to be a cultural aversion to debt. Ireland, Portugal and Spain are trending downwards recently, but that's because they experienced gigantic crashes which transformed consumer and lender risk appetites.

I’ve no doubt that consumerism and the availability of ‘cheap’ money has had a far greater impact on this than Austerity. Although, I would think a certain % of the increase would be down to people using credit as way to make ends meet. 

It was just one of the many things I think has gotten worse since 2010. 

I fundamentally disagree with anybody that thinks this is currently one of the best places in the world to live. 

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, wazzap24 said:

I fundamentally disagree with anybody that thinks this is currently one of the best places in the world to live. 

There are 195 countries in the world. Can you name 15 countries that are better to live in?

And, as a free person (because we live in such a country - again, relatively to others) why don't you move to those places if UK isn't one of the best places to live in? 

Because people die in rafts and in back of trucks because they want to come to live here.