The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[chrisp65]

I’m not interested in comparing, and we’re not talking about the average.

You said people on minimal wage can afford food and go on holiday.

I’ve given you evidence that they can’t and they don’t.

People with jobs need to use foodbanks.

 

I’d pay good money to watch you tell these people to be more grateful.

[Mic09]

25 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I’ve given you evidence that they can’t and they don’t.

People with jobs need to use foodbanks.

And I'll give you evidence that me and my family have been (and some are) on minimum wage. Yet my mum was able to raise me and my brother by herself, even if it meant having a fish and chips for Christmas. While working 55hour weeks.

We could go to school, when we were Ill we could go to a hospital. We could go to University and get good jobs.

So I am grateful, and many people like me alike. Because if I lived in India, I would probably be dead.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Mic09

[chrisp65]

I’m not interested in using India as my metric of whether we’re doing ok. That’s a race to the bottom.

People are using foodbanks and people are homeless. These people are not having little holidays.

Why do you find it such a difficult concept?

[mjmooney]

5 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

And I'll give you evidence that me and my family have been (and some are) on minimum wage. Yet my mum was able to raise me and my brother by herself, even if it meant having a fish and chips for Christmas. While working 55hour weeks.

We could go to school, when we were Ill we could go to a hospital. We could go to University and get good jobs.

So I am grateful, and many people like me alike. Because if I lived in India, I would probably be dead.

I understand this. My wide and I are so much better off than our parents were (largely, in my opinion, due to Labour government policies), that there is a temptation to be complacent. But our adult children are struggling (largely, in my opinion, due to Conservative government policies), and we see lots of people even worse off. "Count one's blessings" is good advice, but just because we are better off than some, that's no reason to not try and make things better. Quite the opposite, in fact. 

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I’m not interested in using India as my metric of whether we’re doing ok. That’s a race to the bottom.

People are using foodbanks and people are homeless. These people are not having little holidays.

Why do you find it such a difficult concept?

Ok, so do you think we can have a good society, like, at all? Because there will always be poor. 

[mjmooney]

Just now, Mic09 said:

Ok, so do you think we can have a good society, like, at all? Because there will always be poor. 

One of Jesus Christ's more reprehensible quotations. Anybody might think that it had been written by the powers that be. Oh, wait... 

[Mic09]

Just now, mjmooney said:

I understand this. My wide and I are so much better off than our parents were (largely, in my opinion, due to Labour government policies), that there is a temptation to be complacent. But our adult children are struggling (largely, in my opinion, due to Conservative government policies), and we see lots of people even worse off. "Count one's blessings" is good advice, but just because we are better off than some, that's no reason to not try and make things better. Quite the opposite, in fact. 

Absolutely, that's what I think. We need to get it better, we need to strive for excellence and support those poorest people need.

But compared to vast majority of the world, we have it good.

I really don't know how anyone can disagree with this.

[Mic09]

Just now, mjmooney said:

One of Jesus Christ's more reprehensible quotations. Anybody might think that it had been written by the powers that be. Oh, wait... 

JC got that one right

[mjmooney]

Again, being the devil's eggnog, perhaps we should count our blessings, and pour more money into foreign aid for poor countries? That always goes down well with Tory voters. 

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

Again, being the devil's eggnog, perhaps we should count our blessings, and pour more money into foreign aid for poor countries? That always goes down well with Tory voters. 

We should not settle for whatever we have in the UK and we should not settle watching those who we can help abroad.

Unfortunately few people want to do that.

[chrisp65]

4 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Ok, so do you think we can have a good society, like, at all? Because there will always be poor. 

 

But why would there always be poor people? What sort of ambition for Britain is that? That we expect people to be poor.

Is that your starting point? There will always be poor people?

Of course we can have a good society, by eliminating the need for foodbanks and by eliminating slum landlords and giving everyone a basic fair chance at a quality of life.

We could do it tomorrow if we wanted to. 

[HanoiVillan]

Pretty much this

 

[Mic09]

6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

But why would there always be poor people? What sort of ambition for Britain is that? That we expect people to be poor.

Is that your starting point? There will always be poor people?

Of course we can have a good society, by eliminating the need for foodbanks and by eliminating slum landlords and giving everyone a basic fair chance at a quality of life.

We could do it tomorrow if we wanted to. 

We definately could and need to do better.

You or me could invite the guy from the tent to stay on our sofas. But we don't do it, because we like to moan about it on the internet.

Let's just have the government fix that guys life.

[colhint]

There will always be poor in any country. Straightforward maths. If you earn below the median you will be amongst the poor. It can't be avoided unless everyone earns the same.

[chrisp65]

Russell Trust alone gave out 1,600,000 emergency food parcels in the last 12 months.

Inviting someone to sofa surf is not the answer.

The government is there to do the macro stuff we want them to, with our money. It’s not lazy to expect our government to look after us, it should be what’s baseline acceptable.

[chrisp65]

Just now, colhint said:

There will always be poor in any country. Straightforward maths. If you earn below the median you will be amongst the poor. It can't be avoided unless everyone earns the same.

 

You can be below the average income or wealth, that does not make you poor.

We’re not talking about a guy with a Fiat being poorer than a guy with a Ferrari, we’re talking about people here on VT not realising the poor are using foodbanks, not going on occasional holidays.

 

[NurembergVillan]

2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

yeah the Uk may be a bit shit at times , but lets not kid ourselves we'd rather live in Estonia

There's no Tallinn what it might be like.

[Mic09]

14 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Russell Trust alone gave out 1,600,000 emergency food parcels in the last 12 months.

Inviting someone to sofa surf is not the answer.

The government is there to do the macro stuff we want them to, with our money. It’s not lazy to expect our government to look after us, it should be what’s baseline acceptable.

I simply fundamentally disagree with you because the government will not fix the fact that there are food banks. 

And yeah, inviting that guy over will be the answer for that specific guy. And that will make the world a little better. And that's all that you or me can do.

I feel like you would like to solve world hunger but aren't willing to have a meal with a poor guy standing in the rain. 

I appreciate it's abstract and nobody does it. I don't and I should. Definately could. 

Can I once again say, that we live in a shitty world where the are people looking for half eaten bananas on the streets? 

But compared to other places, we have a society that's rich enough to even have spare food for food banks. 

Is that too difficult to agree with?

[chrisp65]

3 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I simply fundamentally disagree with you because the government will not fix the fact that there are food banks. 

And yeah, inviting that guy over will be the answer for that specific guy. And that will make the world a little better. And that's all that you or me can do.

I feel like you would like to solve world hunger but aren't willing to have a meal with a poor guy standing in the rain. 

I appreciate it's abstract and nobody does it. I don't and I should. Definately could. 

Can I once again say, that we live in a shitty world where the are people looking for half eaten bananas on the streets? 

But compared to other places, we have a society that's rich enough to even have spare food for food banks. 

Is that too difficult to agree with?

You’ve shifted your goalposts.

Your original point was people on minimum wage can buy food, buy clothes and go on holiday.

I’m telling you we had to donate 100 kilos of emergency food to the local food bank. Many of the people using that food bank have jobs.

Again, I am not interested in some weird race to the bottom international comparison where we should be grateful we aren’t eating bananas out of bins.

[Xann]

37 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Pretty much this

 

I completely understand Scotland voting SNP and folk not wanting to vote Corbyn going Lib. 

It's a Media play. The most prominently bleeding obvious culprit, Murdoch.  

The centre/left vote split and non-Tory voting Scotland gone.

People patting each other on the back for being smarter than the Brexiters are just going to fall 'plop' into the next trap.