hippo Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Been following this thread for a few years:- Blair 'was a neo liberal who betrayed the working class# Milliband 'Hes Red Ed - but pretends he isn't' Corbyn 'He's a daft Marxist who is far to left wing to lead the labour party to government' Meanwhile Cameron, May has probably been the least competent prime ministers in my lifetime - even if you agree with what they propose - they were pretty useless at implementing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 3, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, hippo said: Agree with first part - not the 2nd - I think a big Tory victory is well on the cards. You might be right, but the way I look at it is the more "hard Brexit" the tories go, the lower the number of MPs they'll get, because while they will pick up votes from throbbers, they'll lose them from people who are OK with a soft Brexit, but who don't want the massive damage of no deal, or who vote tory normally, despite being pro EU. Or basically, "hard Brexiters" have always and will always be a small minority, so going for their votes will cost more than it gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Careerist bastard! Quote Jeremy Corbyn is now speaking for Labour. He says this is the last chance MPs will have to stop a no-deal Brexit. He says he understands that the mood is volatile. But if MPs want to stop a no-deal Brexit, they have to act now. He says the bullying that MPs have faced from their own side. But he says he has some words of encouraging: standing by your principles does not always damage your career prospects, he says. (Corbyn is talking about himself, he says. He became Labour leader in 2015, when no one would have predicted that even six months earlier, after a lifetime of principled opposition to many things done by governments of both parties.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 8 hours ago, blandy said: I don't see that he's hamstrung by the wishes of the folk he was wanting to bring back into the fold, at all, Well, I do. It took some time for him come around, and he's (hopefully) better informed than most of Brexit. I've no doubt he'd still like to get there, but the chances of success with our starting point, this HP crew and our media are HA! Since the start of a chance at his Brexit Utopia (in the event of a very possible terminal Tory implosion) he's become less starry eyed. He should be more aware of legitimate problems For industry, immigration, horrendous trade deals made in a hurry and scores of other day to day headaches. There are traps just over the horizon set by Brexit's backers, other finance psychopaths and foreign powers. Some industries will suffer on exit and they're banking on it. Worse still, they're organised. We could keep sliding. Corbyn goes all out Remain? Who knows what colour the red goes in some Northern constituencies? Boris and Farage weren't overjoyed to be spotted together recently. Would anyone rational put it past either of them to make deals on running candidates to maximise a Brexit presence in the Commons? That's why I think Corbyn's hamstrung. Reality rather ruined the shiny Red Brexit he longed for from the backbenches. He won't leave if it it kills Manufacture and Agri (the Jacob Rees-Mogg flavour Brexit). If the EU won't budge? I think he'll remain rather than cause chaos (IRA with drones) and dream of what might have been? I'd also like to see someone make an attempt at stopping the home nations drifting apart. Will feel dirty not voting Green, and I know there's an element of self harm about it, but realistic alternatives are, er, yeah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Well said, Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: Well said, Corbyn. In all honesty he's done pretty well today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 4, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 4, 2019 14 hours ago, Chindie said: In all honesty he's done pretty well today. Two days in a row, he's done well. I think it helps when he's able to talk about things he's genuine about, when combined with having a strategy thought up for him not by his closer advisers, but by wiser ones from the wider party. And then that compared with Johnson's lying, evasion and bull makes Corbyn look a decent performer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Johnson needs this election to be soon, ‘cos the more days people get to compare Johnson and Corbyn, the less and less ‘credible’ the Eton manchild looks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted September 4, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Johnson needs this election to be soon, ‘cos the more days people get to compare Johnson and Corbyn, the less and less ‘credible’ the Eton manchild looks. Even McDonald is sounding credible as a chancellor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 52 minutes ago, blandy said: Two days in a row, he's done well. I think it helps when he's able to talk about things he's genuine about, when combined with having a strategy thought up for him not by his closer advisers, but by wiser ones from the wider party. And then that compared with Johnson's lying, evasion and bull makes Corbyn look a decent performer. I'm sure that's it. "Issues with supply chains caused by rules of origin paperwork requirements? Fine, I'll mumble through this thing you've handed me saying that it's bad." "Old Etonians trying to close down parliament? Now you're talking" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chindie Posted September 4, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted September 4, 2019 McDonnell has eviscerated Javid. Also this comment was a **** quality jab 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Not sure any of this shouting, name calling & taunting on both sides is actually doing a great deal but it's definitely more interesting to watch/listen to than usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Apparently before the spending review started, Johnson got up to leave the chamber and had to be reminded by Hancock that they still had to listen to Javid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 4, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, ml1dch said: I'm sure that's it. "Issues with supply chains caused by rules of origin paperwork requirements? Fine, I'll mumble through this thing you've handed me saying that it's bad." "Old Etonians trying to close down parliament? Now you're talking" I'm unsure if that's sarcastic or genuine, and if sarcastic, aimed at me or Corbyn? Just in case, what I mean is that when you combine his genuine feelings about injustice and posho tories wrecking things, with a strategic approach that has been thought through for him, by people who are actually good at that stuff, rather than him having to think on his feet (which he's terrible at) or rely on the "advice" of his closest advisors (which keeps getting him into trouble), then he can come across pretty well, as he has done the past 2 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, blandy said: I'm unsure if that's sarcastic or genuine, and if sarcastic, aimed at me or Corbyn? Completely genuine. My sarcasm is never as subtle or nuanced as it would need to be in that post! Edited September 4, 2019 by ml1dch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, LakotaDakota said: Not sure any of this shouting, name calling & taunting on both sides is actually doing a great deal but it's definitely more interesting to watch/listen to than usual Just confirms what we all think - they're all a bunch of words removed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 In the wide talks about Tory government wanting to spend and increase the budget on public services, Labour have accused them of Quote grubby electioneering https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-49580802/john-mcdonnell-government-spending-plans-are-grubby-electioneering Well, a broken clock is right twice a day. It's a shame that in the biggest crisis of UK government for decades, our opposition is so arrogant and clueless that they can't even formulate a strategy that will be a bit more constructive than 'whatever Tories do is wrong'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I am all for this grubby electioneering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted September 5, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, Mic09 said: In the wide talks about Tory government wanting to spend and increase the budget on public services, Labour have accused them of https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-49580802/john-mcdonnell-government-spending-plans-are-grubby-electioneering Well, a broken clock is right twice a day. It's a shame that in the biggest crisis of UK government for decades, our opposition is so arrogant and clueless that they can't even formulate a strategy that will be a bit more constructive than 'whatever Tories do is wrong'. Gone are the days of actual policy, everyone now simply argues "they are awful, don't vote for them". Tories are worse for it but Labour aren't exactly faultless in this either. It makes for terrible politics that just winds everybody up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, cyrusr said: Gone are the days of actual policy, everyone now simply argues "they are awful, don't vote for them". Tories are worse for it but Labour aren't exactly faultless in this either. It makes for terrible politics that just winds everybody up. The thing is, nobody is buying this from Labour. I really think it's Corbyn that's to blame, a really arrogant, clueless leader. Few weeks ago he would do everything for an election. Now he doesn't want one because everyone knows Labour would lose. Really poor politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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