The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[coda]

Looks like even young Owen Jones is losing faith in Corbyn.

[tonyh29]

3 hours ago, darrenm said:

I can't help but feel that lots of other leaders in Europe do things because, you know, it's the right thing to do.

some examples of this would be interesting 

I think you are being far to generous about European leaders if I'm honest

[blandy]

2 hours ago, darrenm said:

I can't help but feel that lots of other leaders in Europe do things because, you know, it's the right thing to do.....

I agree. Though  I also think that there are many times the UK Gov't does things because they are the right thing to do. Equally both the other Gov'ts and the UK also do things for their own party reasons. It's just the nature of the beast.

The tone of what our lot are doing is wrong, IMO. They could have said, for example, "although negotiations haven't yet started, we will be allowing all the EU residents in the UK to stay, and we would only reconsider this if we were pushed to do so by the EU nations refusing to reciprocate....in other words, the opposite tone of what they've done where some of them have said "these EU residents are a bargaining chip". It would be much more re-assuring for the people in both the UK and abroad.

The whole approach taken has been incredibly mean spirited and unpleasant, and for no other reason than the people speaking are mean spirited and unpleasant.

[MakemineVanilla]

3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

some examples of this would be interesting 

I think you are being far to generous about European leaders if I'm honest

It does seem a strange claim to make but offering evidence otherwise comes too close to jingoism to be comfortable for any self-deprecating Brit.

But it is understandable because it is very much the habit of the media (the ideological state apparatus) to present rosy pictures of other countries by way of encouraging the proletariat to emulate them.

Be hard-working like the Japanese, tolerant like the Swedes, disciplined like the Germans, have the joie de vivre of the French, the style of the Italians and consume like Americans.

It's only when you see what is actually going on in these countries, that you find that the reality does not live up to the image.

Like millions of people using foodbanks in Germany, the richest country in Europe.

[darrenm]

31 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

some examples of this would be interesting 

I think you are being far to generous about European leaders if I'm honest

Like I say, I can't help but feel. It's just the impression I get that the rest of Europe is a bit more altruistic than we are. I could produce quite a few examples from the Graun but as @MakemineVanilla says, that's just how it's portrayed.

[tonyh29]

On ‎27‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 14:26, darrenm said:

Absolutely. Leader of the opposition who increased his mid-term member vote from 59% to 61% and has caused Labour to become the largest political party in Europe. Abject failure.

Soon to lose that title perhaps :)

Labour has lost nearly 26,000 members since last summer, leaked figures reportedly reveal.

More members quit the party last year than the previous six years combined, according to a report by The Times.

 

I guess a more interesting way to look at it all rather than size of members  (oh matron) would be that the Lib Dems are receiving more in donations

Mr Corbyn's party raised £1,970,055 compared with the £1,972,904 donated to Tim Farron's Lib Dems.

However, it was Theresa May's Conservatives who took the lion's share of donations, with £3,610,983.

I'm guessing the Lib Dems are receiving money on the back of Remainers ?

 

 

[villaglint]

Not surprised at that at all. I joined for the first time in my life because I wanted to have my day in shaping the opposition. 

Corbyn won me got disappointed, me left. Would imagine a lot of people have done similar. 

[chrisp65]

or...Momentum has strengthened it's position as 'traditional' Labour supporters have thought, sod this for a game of pacificts...

half a statistic is no statistic at all as 3 out of statisticians will tell you

[dAVe80]

If you're a member of the party, or support Labour, get ready. I don't care if you don't like Corbyn, if you don't want to see the Tories get back in for another 5 years, now is the time to back Labour. As many Labour members and supporters have done in the past, put aside differences, and fight against the worst set of Tories in living memory. Fight for the NHS. Fight for the millions living in poverty. Fight for the country.

Don't quote me, and expect me to reply, if you're going to be glib, continue the petty arguments, or don't support Labour. Now is the time for us to unite.  

[blandy]

7 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

if you don't want to see the Tories get back in for another 5 years, now is the time to back Labour.

If you don't want tories to get in, vote for the person in your area who is most likely to beat the tories. In some places that will be Labour, in others it will be Lib Dem or Green or SNP or Plaid Cyrmru. Vote tactically.

[tonyh29]

Just now, dAVe80 said:

If you're a member of the party, or support Labour, get ready. I don't care if you don't like Corbyn, if you don't want to see the Tories get back in for another 5 years, now is the time to back Labour. As many Labour members and supporters have done in the past, put aside differences, and fight against the worst set of Tories in living memory. Fight for the NHS. Fight for the millions living in poverty. Fight for the country.

Don't quote me, and expect me to reply, if you're going to be glib, continue the petty arguments, or don't support Labour. Now is the time for us to unite.  

don't vote for these incompetent buffoons , vote for these even more incompetent buffoons

As arguments go , it's not exactly a compelling one

I'm amazed any Labour supporter has the nerve to say Fight for the NHS  , next you'll be saying vote Labour cause we don't join illegal wars

 

[Chindie]

If you care about Brexit, a vote for Labour is as good as a vote for the Tories.

This party is done. Bury it. The election campaign will be an elaborate funeral in very poor taste, desecrating the corpse.

[tonyh29]

Just now, blandy said:

Vote tactically

for shame , when I was younger we drove under a bridge where someone (almost certainly a leftie) had spray painted VOTE TACTICALLY

I asked my dad , what party is this Tac Tilly person a member of 

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by tonyh29

[dAVe80]

13 minutes ago, blandy said:

If you don't want tories to get in, vote for the person in your area who is most likely to beat the tories. In some places that will be Labour, in others it will be Lib Dem or Green or SNP or Plaid Cyrmru. Vote tactically.

I can agree with this.

Edit: Although as this is the Labour thread, my post is more about raising support for my party.

Edited April 18, 2017 by dAVe80

[Davkaus]

The real fight starts now

-Jeremy Corbyn, June 9th 2017

[blandy]

 

[darrenm]

Worth a read if you consider yourself a Labour voter https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/18/labour-jeremy-corbyn-time-to-fight-theresa-may

Theresa May can never be trusted on anything she says ever again. She is a patently dishonest politician who cannot keep her word, because for her, partisan self-interest is more important. Her position was clear. A few weeks ago, May’s spokesperson said: “There isn’t going to be one. It isn’t going to happen. There is not going to be a general election.”

May claims that her U-turn on a snap general election was driven by the threat of Brexit being obstructed by parliament. This is a lie. There is no obstruction. To the chagrin of many ardent remainers, Labour voted through article 50 and emphasised it would respect the will of the British people.

May was the remainer who reinvented herself as a hard Brexiteer, again for partisan self-interest. May was the leader who allowed her chancellor to break a key Tory election pledge on national insurance, only to U-turn when the betrayal became impossible to argue forbecause of her small majority.

She said that now wasn’t the time for a Scottish independence referendum because of the instability it would cause, and then plumps for an unnecessary general election. She announced a pause on the Hinkley Point C nuclear power station and then – under pressure from China’s regime – U-turned.

You Can’t Trust May is just one possible approach for Labour as election-weary voters ask why they have been asked to yet again march to polling stations. But, look. Labour’s current polling is very, very bad indeed: you can’t try to climb a mountain if you are deluded about how high it is. The threat of an early election these past few months should have haunted every moment, for Labour’s left and its trade union allies: those of us who wanted a Labour party that was firmly rooted on the left on the economy, tax and public services, and which could inspire enough people to vote for it.

A man who stood only out of a sense of duty, to put policies on the agenda, and who certainly had no ambition to be leader, will now take Labour into a general election, against all his original expectations. My suggestion that Corbyn stand down in favour of another candidate was driven by a desire to save his policies – which, as the polling shows, are very popular indeed – from being buried in the rubble of a terrible election defeat. They made the decision last June and since – yes, in accordance with the majority of Corbyn’s supporters – not to do so. So now what we must do is unite and do our very best to prevent a Tory landslide that would be calamitous for the country.
This referendum is about Brexit above all else. Labour has understandably agonised over losing the minority of its voters who plumped for leave, not least in its northern heartlands and among older voters who are more motivated to turn out to cast their ballots. It must now make a pitch, too, for despondent remainers.

Yes, that means reassuring leave voters that they will respect the referendum result. But the party must pitch for the 48% who voted remain. May has nothing but contempt for them. They are being not just ignored, but demonised. They are being denied a say over the future of our country. Only Labour can represent you, and the party will do so with every fibre of its being.

Labour will stay in the single market and the customs union. That must be the argument. The party must say: we will defend the rights and benefits that we currently have, which benefit the majority of the country. That will be the basis of any Brexit deal. If the Tories win an immense majority, a ruinous hard Brexit could beckon. If you want to put jobs, the economy and living standards first, you must vote Labour to stop a landslide victory that could turn Britain into a barren tax haven run in the interests of billionaires. Wages are starting to fall: no doubt just one reason why this election was called. Rather than going back to diagnosing a “cost of living crisis”, Labour must set out how it will cure it.

Some will be tempted to vote for the Lib Dems again. Their years of propping up a Tory government – which has led Britain to this calamitous moment – must be emphasised. Tim Farron is on record committing his party once again to a coalition with the Conservatives. He even sided with Donald Trump as soon as he started firing missiles. There is no party so demonstrably dishonest in modern British political history. In any case, our electoral system means that Lib Dem chances of winning a considerable number of seats to champion the remain cause are minimal.

As has been noted, Labour’s recent policies are indeed electorally very popular. You don’t win elections, though, with policies that – taken individually – have high levels of support, as Ed Miliband discovered. There has to be a vision to bring them together. If you don’t define what you are for, you will be defined by your opponents, already the critical problem afflicting Labour’s leadership. You need a sunny, optimistic vision, not a miserable shaking of the stick at everything that’s wrong.

Investing in the Future, for example. Labour privately briefs that the theme of its recent policies is standing up for the 99% and standing up to the 1%. That has to be conveyed in a short, snappy phrase – like Long Term Economic Plan did for the Tories. Above all else: find a vision and stick to it, relentlessly. Every policy you announce must then slip into that frame: so rather than being another good idea thrown into the ether, it emphasises to the electorate what you are about.

And here’s a message for Labour’s immense grassroots army. This is your moment. No excuses: every single one must take to the streets, knocking on doors every possible night that you can, getting the message across, ensuring that on election day there’s the biggest get out the vote operation in the history of British democracy. That may make a sizeable difference in terms of how many seats are won or lost. Voting in a leadership election was not enough, or even close. Go out and fight with everything you have.

There is no point being dishonest here. The Tories have called this election for naked partisan interest: it is cynical and dishonest, but from their own perspective, the logic is self-evident. Everything will now be thrown at Labour and its leadership: and the party starts from a very low base indeed. Corbyn decided to stay, and – with the national platform he will now have – he and his team must prove they can put forward an inspiring and coherent vision. Expose a dishonest Theresa; fight for a Brexit deal that puts jobs, the economy and living standards first; and stand for a Britain run in the interests of the majority, not the elites. Save the postmortem for whatever happens. Now it’s the time to fight.

[TrentVilla]

 

Perhaps Labour might just find a use for Ed's pledges stone... just turn it around and chisel RIP Labour on the other side.

[chrisp65]

3 hours ago, dAVe80 said:

If you're a member of the party, or support Labour, get ready. I don't care if you don't like Corbyn, if you don't want to see the Tories get back in for another 5 years, now is the time to back Labour. As many Labour members and supporters have done in the past, put aside differences, and fight against the worst set of Tories in living memory. Fight for the NHS. Fight for the millions living in poverty. Fight for the country.

Don't quote me, and expect me to reply, if you're going to be glib, continue the petty arguments, or don't support Labour. Now is the time for us to unite.  

I can't fault the sentiment, and there's a very good chance I will indeed vote Labour (should they come up with a credible candidate here).

But I'd have to pick you up on the worst tories in living memory bit. I remember my town being closed down by the bastards and the police being given a political mandate to disrupt my day to day life, confiscate my shoe laces and give my car a 'spot' MOT every time I drove at night. They closed the docks as a political act, they closed the factories as a political act, they emboldened the police to get in our faces in an attempt to provoke a reaction.

Unfortunately, the state of Labour here, a previously Labour seat, is such that they don't currently have a 'candidate in waiting' and the local Labour Club has re branded itself as a folk music venue.

But genuinely good on you for the sentiment.

 

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I can't fault the sentiment, and there's a very good chance I will indeed vote Labour (should they come up with a credible candidate here).

But I'd have to pick you up on the worst tories in living memory bit. I remember my town being closed down by the bastards and the police being given a political mandate to disrupt my day to day life, confiscate my shoe laces and give my car a 'spot' MOT every time I drove at night. They closed the docks as a political act, they closed the factories as a political act, they emboldened the police to get in our faces in an attempt to provoke a reaction.

Unfortunately, the state of Labour here, a previously Labour seat, is such that they don't currently have a 'candidate in waiting' and the local Labour Club has re branded itself as a folk music venue.

But genuinely good on you for the sentiment.

 

Ah you must be from... oh I don't know somewhere north of Oxford...