Popular Post blandy Posted February 27, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, darrenm said: Leader of the opposition who increased his mid-term member vote from 59% to 61% and has caused Labour to become the largest political party in Europe. Abject failure. You would barely know he was leader of the opposition, most of the time. Having a few hundred thousand people pay 3 quid to join the Labour party is nice, but it absolutely doesn't override the fact that nationally his ratings are abysmal, his party's ratings are abysmal, the share of the vote in all the by-elections run under his leadership has fallen (except for the Jo Cox one, where she was unopposed by the other parties). He keeps losing shadow cabinet members, the people he's appointed are mostly equally incompetent he runs and hides, he smears, or lets his aides smear - new clean politics indeed. He's supposed to be making rise under a new wave of popular people's movements (not losing safe-ish seats to the tories in by elections). He's incompetent as a leader and the tories biggest asset. The ineffectual opposition to the Gov't is harming the country. Absolutely awful. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 23 minutes ago, blandy said: You would barely know he was leader of the opposition, most of the time. Having a few hundred thousand people pay 3 quid to join the Labour party is nice, but it absolutely doesn't override the fact that nationally his ratings are abysmal, his party's ratings are abysmal, the share of the vote in all the by-elections run under his leadership has fallen (except for the Jo Cox one, where she was unopposed by the other parties). He keeps losing shadow cabinet members, the people he's appointed are mostly equally incompetent he runs and hides, he smears, or lets his aides smear - new clean politics indeed. He's supposed to be making rise under a new wave of popular people's movements (not losing safe-ish seats to the tories in by elections). He's incompetent as a leader and the tories biggest asset. The ineffectual opposition to the Gov't is harming the country. Absolutely awful. Interesting though that all I posted was fact and everything you've posted (including the ratings, but excepting the share of the vote in the by-elections) is opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted February 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 27, 2017 45 minutes ago, blandy said: He's incompetent as a leader and the tories biggest asset. The ineffectual opposition to the Gov't is harming the country. Absolutely awful. This. In a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 27, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, darrenm said: Interesting though that all I posted was fact and everything you've posted (including the ratings, but excepting the share of the vote in the by-elections) is opinion. You posted 2 "facts" both of which tell back to essentially "Corbyn supporters think (thought) he's good". The membership numbers, um, impressive I suppose. I'm a member of Unite Union, one of well over 1.3 million others - does that mean Len wossisface is doing a good job? People vote to join a party, or to vote for a leader of their party or how to vote in a general election based upon their opinions. Corbyn is in many more opinions doing a bad job than a good job, is rated worse than Theresa May, worse than anyone since Michael Foot. Labour is not doing well in any regard, it is failing. Corbyn is a failure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 It comes to something when people blame the opposition for not opposing enough more than they blame the ones actually responsible for needing to be opposed. Not aimed at anyone in particular but it does seem to happen a lot. 'Corbyn is useless because he doesn't do enough to stop the Tories!' How about by not supporting the elected leader of the opposition you're not doing enough to stop the Tories? (again not aimed at anyone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, darrenm said: It comes to something when people blame the opposition for not opposing enough more than they blame the ones actually responsible for needing to be opposed. Not aimed at anyone in particular but it does seem to happen a lot. 'Corbyn is useless because he doesn't do enough to stop the Tories!' How about by not supporting the elected leader of the opposition you're not doing enough to stop the Tories? (again not aimed at anyone) But Darren, that's their job. That's exactly what they're paid to do. Edited February 27, 2017 by HanoiVillan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 27, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, darrenm said: It comes to something when people blame the opposition for not opposing enough more than they blame the ones actually responsible for needing to be opposed. Not aimed at anyone in particular but it does seem to happen a lot. 'Corbyn is useless because he doesn't do enough to stop the Tories!' How about by not supporting the elected leader of the opposition you're not doing enough to stop the Tories? (again not aimed at anyone) Agree with the first sentence. But not the rest. The Leader of her Maj's opposition is supposed to oppose the Gov't of the day. Corbyn repeatedly fails to do this. Not always, but frequently. May "I've decided, on my own, to do Article 50 by the end of March and I've decided on my own to not bother with the single market stuff" Jezza "3 line whip to support the Theresa May" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Quote Whelan told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “I do wonder, shall we ask ourselves the question: ‘How bad would it have been if we didn’t have Jeremy?’ That’s the question we should be asking ourselves.” I just couldn’t believe that when I read that. The delusion of some people. Whatever persuasion for a healthy democracy you need a decent opposition. I just don’t see Corbyn being that. Edited February 27, 2017 by PauloBarnesi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, blandy said: Agree with the first sentence. But not the rest. The Leader of her Maj's opposition is supposed to oppose the Gov't of the day. Corbyn repeatedly fails to do this. Not always, but frequently. May "I've decided, on my own, to do Article 50 by the end of March and I've decided on my own to not bother with the single market stuff" Jezza "3 line whip to support the Theresa May" Postfixed with "otherwise we'll lose our northern support to ukip" I haven't seen anything else May's done go unopposed. How successful he's been in getting the message out is up for debate of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 27, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, darrenm said: Postfixed with "otherwise we'll lose our northern support to ukip" What and lose a Northern by election? There's a fair chunk of ineffective opposition going on - the example I gave was not only of "not opposing" but of supporting something he (he says) and most of his MPs believe to be harmful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: But Darren, that's their job. That's exactly what they're paid to do. I fully agree, but it's the rest of the sentence after the bolding I have a problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Whatever you feel about Corbyn, I will tell you this. Labour will definitely never win an election with John McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 minute ago, jon_c said: Whatever you feel about Corbyn, I will tell you this. Labour will definitely never win an election with John McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor. True. But McConnell wouldn't be Chancellor under anyone but Corbyn, and Corbyn isn't going to get elected either. So... Chicken or egg? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 minute ago, blandy said: What and lose a Northern by election? Yes, and a Stoke by election. I wouldn't be surprised if the new team of strategists that came in just before Labour's position on brexit was made clear identified Stoke as so key that it had to be won and supporting 'the will of the people' was the only way to stop support being lost to ukip which would have been impossible to recover from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, jon_c said: Whatever you feel about Corbyn, I will tell you this. Labour will definitely never win an election with John McDonnell as Shadow Chancellor. I agree. He's part of the old guard and none of the momentum lot can identify with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 27, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, darrenm said: Yes, and a Stoke by election. I wouldn't be surprised if the new team of strategists that came in just before Labour's position on brexit was made clear identified Stoke as so key that it had to be won and supporting 'the will of the people' was the only way to stop support being lost to ukip which would have been impossible to recover from. The difficulty with that is that to decide to support a Gov't line and set of actions on leaving the EU, with all the issues that creates for millions of people and businesses etc. in order to avoid the perceived risk of losing a single by-election (or even two) to the UKIPs, when JC and 95% of his MPs and 66% of Labour's voters are against Brexit is/would be the least principled, least trustworthy, poorest judgement imaginable. It's unfathomable, again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 27, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2017 To add, he didn't just whip his MPs to support May, he told them not to even try and amend the A50 bill for the better. Just mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 minute ago, blandy said: The difficulty with that is that to decide to support a Gov't line and set of actions on leaving the EU, with all the issues that creates for millions of people and businesses etc. in order to avoid the perceived risk of losing a single by-election (or even two) to the UKIPs, when JC and 95% of his MPs and 66% of Labour's voters are against Brexit is/would be the least principled, least trustworthy, poorest judgement imaginable. It's unfathomable, again. Have a like because I largely agree but I don't think it's unfathomable. I can see the reasoning even if I don't agree with it. I would have set the party up as the remain opposition but then it's probably good I'm not in charge as I'd probably lose the old working class labour and still have Blairites gunning for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 27, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, darrenm said: I don't think it's unfathomable There's a perceivable logic for a politician who is "the same as all the rest"....except JC is said to be different and to avoid all that devious "side" or spin. To be a man of principle - that's his apparent usp. So that's why its unfathomable - it goes against what he said he believes and against what is claimed to be his strength. It might also be of course because he's not actually keen on remaining. He spent the last 30 years being anti EU, then "converted" recently to the remain view. Hmmm. Whichever, it's a howler IMO. But have a like, as we largely agreed on him for once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 11 hours ago, Jon said: I'd love to see a Progressive Alliance of 'left' and 'centre left' parties, which would hopefully include Labour, Plaid, SNP, Greens & Lib Dems. Not 1 party, but different parties who have some differing opinions, but who can work together, especially come a GE, and not oppose each other and fracture the centre, centre left, left vote. A Rainbow Coalition of sorts. I honestly think, in terms of governing the country from the centre left, it's the only option. It's a nice idea. All we've got to do now is stop Labour in Wales teaming up with UKIP to stop Plaid local council policies being implemented. Oh, and persuade the SNP this was just light hearted trolling: It would take next to nothing for me to vote Labour. Picking fights with Plaid and the SNP strikes me as a bit small time pathetic when a tory government is currently going unopposed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts