The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Mark Albrighton]

16 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Wut?

Never heard of Angela Eagle, Steven Twigg or Frank Field?

c’mon man

 

16 hours ago, Davkaus said:

 

If I had to guess, I'd have thought they were characters in a children's cartoon, think Angela Eagle was probably in either Peppa Pig or Arthur. 

Maybe I give myself too much credit, but I'd be surprised if most people have heard of them

 

Yeah, I fall on the side of Dav here. I only know and could easily identify Berger from that list. Greenwood rings a bell, as does Ellman. Wouldn’t have been able to pick either out of a line up.

I see that Twigg beat Portillo in ‘97 so I’ve obviously seen him before (I was 13 when Michael realised his career should involve more train journeys). 

But put it like this, when I was searching for him one of the first articles of that appeared was one from the Independent in 2010 titled “Whatever happened to the man who beat Portillo?”.

So I’m not massively surprised I haven’t got Twigg’s name on the tip of my tongue. And if that’s true of a politician who was involved in something famous like “The Portillo Moment” (not “The Twigg Moment”) the others aren’t likely to register with me.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Mark Albrighton

[Lichfield Dean]

Urgh, I really don't like Andy Burnham. He always comes across as loud and self important to me. And if he got into power the Midlands would probably be totally screwed over given his Manchester-ness, and the last thing the country needs is more Manchester-ness.

[chrisp65]

23 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said:

Urgh, I really don't like Andy Burnham. He always comes across as loud and self important to me. And if he got into power the Midlands would probably be totally screwed over given his Manchester-ness, and the last thing the country needs is more Manchester-ness.

It’s long been my opinion that the only thing holding Birmingham and the Midlands back, is Birmingham and the Midlands. I don’t feel much self confidence or self belief when I’m around the area.

[Wainy316]

25 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said:

Urgh, I really don't like Andy Burnham. He always comes across as loud and self important to me. And if he got into power the Midlands would probably be totally screwed over given his Manchester-ness, and the last thing the country needs is more Manchester-ness.

I most definitely second this but people do seem to love it for some reason. 

[Demitri_C]

3 hours ago, Lichfield Dean said:

Urgh, I really don't like Andy Burnham. He always comes across as loud and self important to me. And if he got into power the Midlands would probably be totally screwed over given his Manchester-ness, and the last thing the country needs is more Manchester-ness.

I would rather burnham than khan if given a choice as leader. 

[Davkaus]

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I would rather burnham than khan if given a choice as leader. 

What makes you think Burnham would do more for London than Khan?

[foreveryoung]

3 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

It’s long been my opinion that the only thing holding Birmingham and the Midlands back, is Birmingham and the Midlands. I don’t feel much self confidence or self belief when I’m around the area.

I agree with the Midlands areas, but Birmingham, more so the city has been heavily invested in.

[Demitri_C]

14 hours ago, Davkaus said:

What makes you think Burnham would do more for London than Khan?

I think everyone knows my opinion on khan

[Jareth]

21 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I think everyone knows my opinion on khan

Yep agreed, 'I'm every woman' was a seminal piece. 

[Davkaus]

Looks like another backtrack. People will argue it's a good political move, to not scare off the red wall Brexiteers, but at this point, is there a single thing Kier still stands by that he claimed to believe when trying to steal control of the Labour party? At this point "anyone but Tory" isn't feeling like enough to give this party my vote

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kier-starmer-to-rule-out-return-of-free-movement-with-europe-gdd0976gm

Quote

Sir Keir Starmer is preparing a speech about immigration in which he will rule out bringing back free movement with Europe if Labour wins the next election, The Times has learnt.

Under the free movement of labour principle of the single market, citizens of EU member states were able to live and work in the UK while Britain was part of the bloc.

Although Starmer has been adamant that Labour will not campaign to rejoin the EU under his leadership, some of his MPs want him to seek a closer relationship with Brussels which could include a new immigration pact.

As part of his leadership campaign in 2020 Starmer promised Labour members he would “defend free movement as we leave the EU”. However, he now wants to scotch any suggestion that he would agree to a return of free movement as he tries to win back voters the party lost to the Conservatives at the last election. A Labour source said: “Keir recognises that it’s time to put a line in the sand and stop any speculation about what our position on immigration might be.”

The Times doesn't tell the whole story of "defend free movement as we leave the EU" , as after we left:

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-leadership-contest-keir-starmer-free-movement-brexit-392782

Quote

Keir Starmer has pledged to bring back freedom of movement for EU citizens if he becomes Prime Minister.

Speaking in Westminster, Sir Keir said he would “bring back, argue for, challenge” freedom of movement in the coming years. He added: “We welcome migrants, we don’t scapegoat them. We have to make the cases for the benefits of migration, the benefits of free movement.”

At least he's not as much of a bullshitter as the incumbent, but that's not quite good enough.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Davkaus

[Chindie]

Starmer has many principles, and if you don't like those he's open to discovering others.

If Corbyn said this he'd have been crucified. And then the corpse crucified for the other things the sensible faction hated because he was saying it.

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Chindie said:

If Corbyn said this he'd have been crucified

And rightly so

I suspect Starmer is going to get "crucified" by the same people

Personally for me, this is  a deal breaker and will prevent me from voting Labour (not that it matters in my seat right now)

I'm much more likely to vote LibDem now as I want 1) Electoral Reform and 2) Free Movement and I really don't like that I have to vote LibDem

It's like Labour actually learned nothing from their position in the whole Brexit fiasco. I also think the membership will be against this too, apart from the left wing.

I suspect Conference might actually force his hand on this, if they don't then they deserve to lose

[Chindie]

You'd think so, but, for example...

Says the position is wrong but then supports it. There doesn't seem to be much backlash out there at all.

[bickster]

For most people improving the deal with the EU would be all about Free Movement and that will become all the more apparent as time goes on and people still face big passport queues etc

 

[LondonLax]

I think the U.K. will have to regain what it lost due to Brexit only by a number of steps over time. I can’t see a return of freedom of movement as being a vote winner. It will just be painted as an immigration free for all and that scare campaign will work. 

[Genie]

The second Starmer says free movement he’s lost imo. 

Too many people are still completely tribal about Brexit. Boris would love to start shouting about Labour undoing the incredible opportunity Brexit delivers. Going against the will of the people. Going against democracy.

He needs to find a a balance between not being Mr Rejoin but also establishing a closer relationship with Europe

Edited June 20, 2022 by Genie

[lapal_fan]

30 minutes ago, Genie said:

The second Starmer says free movement he’s lost imo. 

Too many people are still completely tribal about Brexit. Boris would love to start shouting about Labour undoing the incredible opportunity Brexit delivers.

He needs to find a a balance between not being Mr Rejoin but also establishing a closer relationship with Europe

Free movement doesn't need to be said "skill gap" "employment gap" "menial work filling" need to be the language used.

Essentially, to the average arsehole "free movement" just means "more Poles/Easterners and brown people", rather than "any citizen of the EU can go in any direction". 

People are stupid because they've been conditioned to become defensive to certain words/phrases. 

[chrisp65]

Free school meals in Wales for all Reception children, no qualification criteria, from September.

I’m gonna stick my neck out and say that at this point Kier is neither for or against free school meals but has been very clear that humans need to eat in certain circumstances.

[desensitized43]

1 hour ago, lapal_fan said:

Free movement doesn't need to be said "skill gap" "employment gap" "menial work filling" need to be the language used.

Essentially, to the average arsehole "free movement" just means "more Poles/Easterners and brown people", rather than "any citizen of the EU can go in any direction". 

People are stupid because they've been conditioned to become defensive to certain words/phrases. 

I agree with everything you say but it still doesn't matter. Johnson would love nothing more than to drag the debate onto territory he feels he can win. That's getting a load of the people (and the news outlets they read) frothing at the mouth over foreigners, the EU and ECHR etc.

That's the entire reason they're doing the Rwanda and Nothern Ireland stuff right now. It's an attempt to divert away from areas they can't win like the cost of living and the fact that their leader has less in the way of morality than Darth Vader.

It's annoying but Labour are doing the right thing by not engaging with it as it'll only allow it to become a proper debate on the ground Tories like.

 

[Jareth]

I'd be impressed if Starmer convinces anyone that he doesn't support freedom of movement. Should he win power and then backtrack I would not be at all surprised.