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The Tim Sherwood Thread


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I'm fairly sure that those players whom he 'didn't want' have a pretty nice incentive to bury him over the next two games, so I don't anticipate us doing much.

It's a crazy thing to say. How are players going to be motivated playing for a manager who has told the world he doesn't want them?

Almost as crazy as calling the player losers on the eve of a cup final.

It's no wonder they're not performing really.

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Ultimatum or not, backing of the board or not, The majority of the fans now want him gone. If Tim puts out the kind of brain dead team we saw against Stoke vs Swansea, and we go on the lose, the crowd will well and truly turn on him. Once that happens its just a matter of time, if it isn't already.

He'll be gone by November IMO.

A new manager wont make much difference, this club needs a change at the very top for anything to ever get any better, but thats another thread. Sherwood still has my support, the whole transfer thing is making the club looking a bit amatuerish to be honest and it's hard to really know what's going on.

Conversely, I think handing a guy with no experience in the transfer market £40m plus and saying 'there you go Tim, fill your boots' would be incredibly amateurish. Its the sort of "business sence" Lerner employed with O'Neill, and is arguably one of the reasons we are in the position we now find ourselves.

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I'm fairly sure that those players whom he 'didn't want' have a pretty nice incentive to bury him over the next two games, so I don't anticipate us doing much.

It's a crazy thing to say. How are players going to be motivated playing for a manager who has told the world he doesn't want them?

Almost as crazy as calling the player losers on the eve of a cup final.

It's no wonder they're not performing really.

I have been trying to keep out of this thread but just out of interest where did he say that?

Not saying he didnt but I missed it and can't find anything.

 

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I'm fairly sure that those players whom he 'didn't want' have a pretty nice incentive to bury him over the next two games, so I don't anticipate us doing much.

It's a crazy thing to say. How are players going to be motivated playing for a manager who has told the world he doesn't want them?

Almost as crazy as calling the player losers on the eve of a cup final.

It's no wonder they're not performing really.

 

I have been trying to keep out of this thread but just out of interest where did he say that?

Not saying he didnt but I missed it and can't find anything.

 

The players not being his or the players being losers?

The latter was in the run up to the cup final. Sherwood said something along the lines of we needed a winning mentality and we needed to get the losers out of the squad.

The former is based on the rumours emerging recently that Sherwood is underperforming because he wasn't allowed to bring in his own players this summer (despite previously claiming he had a say on all the transfers)

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I think we all agree that Lerner needs to go. But Fox appears to putting in place the sort of structure most of us have been crying out for. And now it's in place, its become a means of shifting a bit of blame from Tim's door. As an unproven and inexperienced Manager, I think it would have been gross mismanagement to not a have a team in place. (transfer committee, call it what you will) we would probably have ended up with the sort of squad that sent QPR down had he been left to his own devices.

I think saying 'the club is a F***g mess' or blaming a recruitment policy for the mess we are in, is a poor effort of detracting from the frankly laughable "job" Sherwood is doing.

Yes Lerner needs to sod off, but the more pressing issue is getting this chancer off the payroll and employing an actual Manager that has half a clue about how set up a football team.

 

Depends on how it works, if the manager can provide a shortlist and it's either a yes or no then that's fine, if it's a case of saying no to the manager and then saying but we got you these guys instead good luck with that, then I think you are going to have problems all round. For me a manager should be in control off all transfers so he can shape his team with the characters he wants to buy into his methods.

It's just speculation but both Villa and Liverpool seem to be operating some sort of transfer committee and both teams have been doing shit, the same thing happened with AVB at Tottenham and that went tits up. Coincidence????  Not sure but something to think about

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I think we all agree that Lerner needs to go. But Fox appears to putting in place the sort of structure most of us have been crying out for. And now it's in place, its become a means of shifting a bit of blame from Tim's door. As an unproven and inexperienced Manager, I think it would have been gross mismanagement to not a have a team in place. (transfer committee, call it what you will) we would probably have ended up with the sort of squad that sent QPR down had he been left to his own devices.

I think saying 'the club is a F***g mess' or blaming a recruitment policy for the mess we are in, is a poor effort of detracting from the frankly laughable "job" Sherwood is doing.

Yes Lerner needs to sod off, but the more pressing issue is getting this chancer off the payroll and employing an actual Manager that has half a clue about how set up a football team.

 

Depends on how it works, if the manager can provide a shortlist and it's either a yes or no then that's fine, if it's a case of saying no to the manager and then saying but we got you these guys instead good luck with that, then I think you are going to have problems all round. For me a manager should be in control off all transfers so he can shape his team with the characters he wants to buy into his methods.

It's just speculation but both Villa and Liverpool seem to be operating some sort of transfer committee and both teams have been doing shit, the same thing happened with AVB at Tottenham and that went tits up. Coincidence????  Not sure but something to think about

How about at Southampton and Swansea? 

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The merits or otherwise of any given transfer policy should not detract from the fact that Tim has not got any of the requisite skills to Manager a football club.

Let's not forget, Lescott was one signing we know was at the behest of Tim.

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I think we all agree that Lerner needs to go. But Fox appears to putting in place the sort of structure most of us have been crying out for. And now it's in place, its become a means of shifting a bit of blame from Tim's door. As an unproven and inexperienced Manager, I think it would have been gross mismanagement to not a have a team in place. (transfer committee, call it what you will) we would probably have ended up with the sort of squad that sent QPR down had he been left to his own devices.

I think saying 'the club is a F***g mess' or blaming a recruitment policy for the mess we are in, is a poor effort of detracting from the frankly laughable "job" Sherwood is doing.

Yes Lerner needs to sod off, but the more pressing issue is getting this chancer off the payroll and employing an actual Manager that has half a clue about how set up a football team.

 

Depends on how it works, if the manager can provide a shortlist and it's either a yes or no then that's fine, if it's a case of saying no to the manager and then saying but we got you these guys instead good luck with that, then I think you are going to have problems all round. For me a manager should be in control off all transfers so he can shape his team with the characters he wants to buy into his methods.

It's just speculation but both Villa and Liverpool seem to be operating some sort of transfer committee and both teams have been doing shit, the same thing happened with AVB at Tottenham and that went tits up. Coincidence????  Not sure but something to think about

 

How about at Southampton and Swansea? 

Like I said, it depends on how it works and how much input the manager gets, and also what experience and qualifications these committee people have. Im must admit I'm not a fan of buying players based on statistics. I believe Swansea extensivley scout their recruits before over a long period of time

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I think we all agree that Lerner needs to go. But Fox appears to putting in place the sort of structure most of us have been crying out for. And now it's in place, its become a means of shifting a bit of blame from Tim's door. As an unproven and inexperienced Manager, I think it would have been gross mismanagement to not a have a team in place. (transfer committee, call it what you will) we would probably have ended up with the sort of squad that sent QPR down had he been left to his own devices.

I think saying 'the club is a F***g mess' or blaming a recruitment policy for the mess we are in, is a poor effort of detracting from the frankly laughable "job" Sherwood is doing.

Yes Lerner needs to sod off, but the more pressing issue is getting this chancer off the payroll and employing an actual Manager that has half a clue about how set up a football team.

 

Depends on how it works, if the manager can provide a shortlist and it's either a yes or no then that's fine, if it's a case of saying no to the manager and then saying but we got you these guys instead good luck with that, then I think you are going to have problems all round. For me a manager should be in control off all transfers so he can shape his team with the characters he wants to buy into his methods.

It's just speculation but both Villa and Liverpool seem to be operating some sort of transfer committee and both teams have been doing shit, the same thing happened with AVB at Tottenham and that went tits up. Coincidence????  Not sure but something to think about

 

How about at Southampton and Swansea? 

I think it's an incredibly sensible way to do things, and the future of football clubs.

It stops changes in manager being such an upheaval. Basically everything carries on as normal but with a new "head coach" to come in and manage the team.

As you say, it's what has worked so well for Southampton and Swansea.

Of course, if not implemented correctly it goes tits up. But you could say that about any strategy

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I think we all agree that Lerner needs to go. But Fox appears to putting in place the sort of structure most of us have been crying out for. And now it's in place, its become a means of shifting a bit of blame from Tim's door. As an unproven and inexperienced Manager, I think it would have been gross mismanagement to not a have a team in place. (transfer committee, call it what you will) we would probably have ended up with the sort of squad that sent QPR down had he been left to his own devices.

I think saying 'the club is a F***g mess' or blaming a recruitment policy for the mess we are in, is a poor effort of detracting from the frankly laughable "job" Sherwood is doing.

Yes Lerner needs to sod off, but the more pressing issue is getting this chancer off the payroll and employing an actual Manager that has half a clue about how set up a football team.

 

Depends on how it works, if the manager can provide a shortlist and it's either a yes or no then that's fine, if it's a case of saying no to the manager and then saying but we got you these guys instead good luck with that, then I think you are going to have problems all round. For me a manager should be in control off all transfers so he can shape his team with the characters he wants to buy into his methods.

It's just speculation but both Villa and Liverpool seem to be operating some sort of transfer committee and both teams have been doing shit, the same thing happened with AVB at Tottenham and that went tits up. Coincidence????  Not sure but something to think about

 

How about at Southampton and Swansea? 

Like I said, it depends on how it works and how much input the manager gets, and also what experience and qualifications these committee people have. Im must admit I'm not a fan of buying players based on statistics. I believe Swansea extensivley scout their recruits before over a long period of time

And what Experience and Qualifications does the Manager have?

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Tim has not got any of the requisite skills to Manager a football club.

I think this is very much the main issue.

He simply doesn't seem to understand any aspect of being a football manager.

And to be honest, that's a bit of a major problem when you're managing a football team.

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I think we all agree that Lerner needs to go. But Fox appears to putting in place the sort of structure most of us have been crying out for. And now it's in place, its become a means of shifting a bit of blame from Tim's door. As an unproven and inexperienced Manager, I think it would have been gross mismanagement to not a have a team in place. (transfer committee, call it what you will) we would probably have ended up with the sort of squad that sent QPR down had he been left to his own devices.

I think saying 'the club is a F***g mess' or blaming a recruitment policy for the mess we are in, is a poor effort of detracting from the frankly laughable "job" Sherwood is doing.

Yes Lerner needs to sod off, but the more pressing issue is getting this chancer off the payroll and employing an actual Manager that has half a clue about how set up a football team.

 

Depends on how it works, if the manager can provide a shortlist and it's either a yes or no then that's fine, if it's a case of saying no to the manager and then saying but we got you these guys instead good luck with that, then I think you are going to have problems all round. For me a manager should be in control off all transfers so he can shape his team with the characters he wants to buy into his methods.

It's just speculation but both Villa and Liverpool seem to be operating some sort of transfer committee and both teams have been doing shit, the same thing happened with AVB at Tottenham and that went tits up. Coincidence????  Not sure but something to think about

 

How about at Southampton and Swansea? 

I think it's an incredibly sensible way to do things, and the future of football clubs.

It stops changes in manager being such an upheaval. Basically everything carries on as normal but with a new "head coach" to come in and manage the team.

As you say, it's what has worked so well for Southampton and Swansea.

Of course, if not implemented correctly it goes tits up. But you could say that about any strategy

You can indeed. Football remains a zero-sum game. If all twenty teams had exactly the scouting and transfer strategy as Southampton, three of them would still be relegated at the end of the season. 

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I think we all agree that Lerner needs to go. But Fox appears to putting in place the sort of structure most of us have been crying out for. And now it's in place, its become a means of shifting a bit of blame from Tim's door. As an unproven and inexperienced Manager, I think it would have been gross mismanagement to not a have a team in place. (transfer committee, call it what you will) we would probably have ended up with the sort of squad that sent QPR down had he been left to his own devices.

I think saying 'the club is a F***g mess' or blaming a recruitment policy for the mess we are in, is a poor effort of detracting from the frankly laughable "job" Sherwood is doing.

Yes Lerner needs to sod off, but the more pressing issue is getting this chancer off the payroll and employing an actual Manager that has half a clue about how set up a football team.

 

Depends on how it works, if the manager can provide a shortlist and it's either a yes or no then that's fine, if it's a case of saying no to the manager and then saying but we got you these guys instead good luck with that, then I think you are going to have problems all round. For me a manager should be in control off all transfers so he can shape his team with the characters he wants to buy into his methods.

It's just speculation but both Villa and Liverpool seem to be operating some sort of transfer committee and both teams have been doing shit, the same thing happened with AVB at Tottenham and that went tits up. Coincidence????  Not sure but something to think about

 

How about at Southampton and Swansea? 

Like I said, it depends on how it works and how much input the manager gets, and also what experience and qualifications these committee people have. Im must admit I'm not a fan of buying players based on statistics. I believe Swansea extensivley scout their recruits before over a long period of time

And what Experience and Qualifications does the Manager have?

Level one, two and three coaching badges, UEFA A licence, UEFA B license and the UEFA pro license as far as qualifications go, played 453 senior games, won 3 england caps and has managed 54 top flight games.  Proabably more qualifications and experience than Hendrik Almstadt the Sporting Director who used to work on the commercial side of things at Arsenal but who moved into player recruitmnet because he was interested in data analysis.

Im not saying Tim has not made mistakes thus far but I'm not convinced our transfer committe is quite up to Swansea/Southampton standards. You could also argue what experience did Gary Monk have before being appointed at Swansea so I don't think you can say Sherwood is not qualified to do the job, that's a bit unfair on him

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I bet that a fair few managers will be looking at this talk of transfer committees and thinking that they've been working under the same system for years.  All clubs have head scouts, analysts, scouts, a money man who tries to get the deal done in budget, the manager who has a huge say as Lambert has said he did under Reilly, and a chairman/CEO who decides the budget.  We've recruited a CEO and analyst from Arsenal, a club where supposedly the manager has all control over signings.  Yet Wenger is a huge fan of scouting and recruiting young players from Europe like we have, and it's been tremendously successful, and must have done it with a lot of help.  It's not as if we haven't signed experienced PL players either, in Richards, Lescott and Sinclair and Adebayor was set to sign.  It was a very good, balanced summer window IMO.  So we didn't get Townsend, who would have cost £15m, £60k a week and has played five matches this season.  Huddleston, no thanks.  Lennon perhaps, but he would have chosen Everton over us anyway.  Begovic turned us down, and we didn't need a keeper anyway.  I think Sherwood can have little complaint, certainly compared to Lambert who very rarely made a fuss, if at all, about the players we missed out on in his time here.

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I bet that a fair few managers will be looking at this talk of transfer committees and thinking that they've been working under the same system for years.  All clubs have head scouts, analysts, scouts, a money man who tries to get the deal done in budget, the manager who has a huge say as Lambert has said he did under Reilly, and a chairman/CEO who decides the budget.  We've recruited a CEO and analyst from Arsenal, a club where supposedly the manager has all control over signings.  Yet Wenger is a huge fan of scouting and recruiting young players from Europe like we have, and it's been tremendously successful, and must have done it with a lot of help.  It's not as if we haven't signed experienced PL players either, in Richards, Lescott and Sinclair and Adebayor was set to sign.  It was a very good, balanced summer window IMO.  So we didn't get Townsend, who would have cost £15m, £60k a week and has played five matches this season.  Huddleston, no thanks.  Lennon perhaps, but he would have chosen Everton over us anyway.  Begovic turned us down, and we didn't need a keeper anyway.  I think Sherwood can have little complaint, certainly compared to Lambert who very rarely made a fuss, if at all, about the players we missed out on in his time here.

I'm fairly sure that those players whom he 'didn't want' have a pretty nice incentive to bury him over the next two games, so I don't anticipate us doing much.

It's a crazy thing to say. How are players going to be motivated playing for a manager who has told the world he doesn't want them?

Almost as crazy as calling the player losers on the eve of a cup final.

It's no wonder they're not performing really.

 

I have been trying to keep out of this thread but just out of interest where did he say that?

Not saying he didnt but I missed it and can't find anything.

 

The players not being his or the players being losers?

The latter was in the run up to the cup final. Sherwood said something along the lines of we needed a winning mentality and we needed to get the losers out of the squad.

The former is based on the rumours emerging recently that Sherwood is underperforming because he wasn't allowed to bring in his own players this summer (despite previously claiming he had a say on all the transfers)

Sharky I think Lambert didn't make much fuss because he turned into a zombie and could only mumble. Most people wouldn't of had a clue as to whether he was moaning or not anyway. 

I can understand peoples frustration at Sherwoods decision making on match day's etc, however where are all the direct quotes from Sherwood himself saying he didn't want half the players etc? I am being genuine as I haven't seen any and it appears a lot of people are wound up about 'so called info' he may or may not be responsible for saying. Most of what I have read or seen is just regurgitated nonsense or 1 +1 = 3 shite from crap journo's looking for a story.

 

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I bet that a fair few managers will be looking at this talk of transfer committees and thinking that they've been working under the same system for years.  All clubs have head scouts, analysts, scouts, a money man who tries to get the deal done in budget, the manager who has a huge say as Lambert has said he did under Reilly, and a chairman/CEO who decides the budget.  We've recruited a CEO and analyst from Arsenal, a club where supposedly the manager has all control over signings.  Yet Wenger is a huge fan of scouting and recruiting young players from Europe like we have, and it's been tremendously successful, and must have done it with a lot of help.  It's not as if we haven't signed experienced PL players either, in Richards, Lescott and Sinclair and Adebayor was set to sign.  It was a very good, balanced summer window IMO.  So we didn't get Townsend, who would have cost £15m, £60k a week and has played five matches this season.  Huddleston, no thanks.  Lennon perhaps, but he would have chosen Everton over us anyway.  Begovic turned us down, and we didn't need a keeper anyway.  I think Sherwood can have little complaint, certainly compared to Lambert who very rarely made a fuss, if at all, about the players we missed out on in his time here.

Yep totally agree, 'transfer committees' are nothing new in reality, maybe a new way of wording it, and for sure the scouting / recruitment team have a much greater say on which players are actually signed.  However I think the biggest change recently to this system is that these people now work somewhat independently of the manger, gone are the days of a manager bring in a few of his old playing mates to his 'scouts'.  Which in my eyes in entirely prudent and sensible and can only benefit the club.

Anyway Sherwood certainly seemed happy enough to work with Reilly 'before' he signed, so really he can just get f**ked with the pathetic leaks....

Aston-Villas-Tim-Sherwood-with-Paddy-Reilly.jpg

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