Popular Post Chindie Posted March 22, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) 35 minutes ago, LxYoungAVFC said: Yup, I said all of that. You oversensitive do-gooders amuse me. I might find time later to write about my first Hand experiences with refugees (syrian, ethiopian and eritrean). Showing you how some of these people really think might me worth the effort. Wahey, do-gooders! Everyone get your Heil bingo cards out, we've got a full house waiting to happen here. You don't need to tell me your experience of refugees. I really don't care. Let me tell you of my experience of 'People' though. Lots and lots of People have really annoying views. A great deal of them are very nice but then some turn out to be racist, or violent, or just generally rude. Some of them have really horrific views, others have mildly dislikeable ones. Some of those horrific views get enacted, so people get hurt. I live in Birmingham. Today I need to go into the city centre. I'll get there being driven by a man who won't be likely won't be a white Christian. If I get the bus he'll probably be wearing a turban knowing my route. When I get there I'll get a coffee and I'll be served by a Muslim girl who by her accent is first or second generation migrant to the UK, and she's very nice. On the way to my destination I'll walk past a bus stop that is always busy with poor people, lots of them Somali, and others mainly Muslim women wearing veils. I walked past this stop 4 or 5 times a day until recently. These people get in my way on the way to work and some of them are rude and don't speak much English. When I got to the office my day would involve working with a second generation migrant, who is a lovely bloke, and a bloke from a posh part of the Midlands who is an irritating prat. I'd email a bunch of people, a client from the Indian subcontinent who runs his own successful business, a lady who also runs an award winning business who is the nicest person I've ever met, an Australian who can be a hateful arse who has some grim views on things, a Muslim man in Bradford who is always incredibly helpful, a Chinese descent woman in London who has bailed me out time after time when I need a favour to win business. At the weekend I order a curry from one of 2 local restaurants. One of the drivers who usually turns up speaks very little English, appears to be 'right off the boat' and is rude and an arsehole. The other is a normal Asian bloke. The off licence by me is run by a Sikh family, who natter away in their own language, and usually chuck your change at you. My point is this. People can be horrible. And that includes refugees and migrants. But it also includes natives. I've had scuffles, drunken usually, before now with people and that's been locals inevitably, I've been threatened in a former job by a local guy. Being from Birmingham, I get to see the good and the bad in a matter of seconds, and people older than me will know the bad even more - white people bombed this city and killed people having an evening out. That didn't mean I decided the Irish were scum to a man. Edited March 22, 2016 by Chindie Spelling, clarity 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted March 22, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted March 22, 2016 59 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Just for the record if someone like ISIS started attacking where I lived, blowing up buildings, shooting everyone in sight, raping and pillaging, I wouldn't stay and fight. I'd leg it with my wife and child. I'd go and find somewhere that I thought might take us all in so I could reluctantly start a new life there, ever grateful for the opportunity I'd been given. I'm a (relatively) fit, young man, but if people start marching down my street with automatic weapons and RPG launchers I'll be out of here. Proud and loyal? Yes. Cannon fodder? No. Excellent post and I agree completely. I keep reading this bullshit that they should stand and fight in there own country. I imagine it's spouted by people who have never been in a serious situation once, but are confident they'd be John Rambo if they were. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 17 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: so we must be very careful indeed who and how we let the refugees in Are you building a wall and fence along the perimeter of the EU land borders, then? Who are you getting to police it? What are you going to do with the people who turn up at the checkpoints with Belgian/UK/French/German passports or other EU passports and travel documentation (such as you may have when trying to get back in from outside the EU)? 1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: kill them or remove the source of the rats completely Towers ever hundred yards or so? How do you do the distinguishing between the 'rats' and the 'people'? What is meant by 'removing the source'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brumerican Posted March 22, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted March 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Excellent post and I agree completely. I keep reading this bullshit that they should stand and fight in there own country. I imagine it's spouted by people who have never been in a serious situation once, but are confident they'd be John Rambo if they were. I have been shot at in Kosovo . Shat me pants fam. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 29 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: I do not see any reason to be nice to returning jihadist's, if I want to call them rats and that offends then so be it. People fleeing for their lives from war are people, there is a massive difference between the 2. The problem we have is the rats look like normal people so we must be very careful indeed who and how we let the refugees in. Today's events were carried out by a few people who may or may not have come back from Syria but the skills to pull this off are not taught in Belgium schools as far as i know. The jihadists are worse than rats but your original post came across as though you were generalising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: The jihadists are worse than rats but your original post came across as though you were generalising. No problem mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 And we wonder how people like Donald Trump are in with a shout at being elected into office. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, Keyblade said: And we wonder how people like Donald Trump are in with a shout at being elected into office. Today's events will probably bag him a few more votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 28 dead according to Guardian, but given the amount injured and the nature of the attack you'd probably expect it will end up being double that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Just arrived in Spain on my holidays... probably be tighter security on the route back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LxYoungAVFC Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 52 minutes ago, Chindie said: Wahey, do-gooders! Everyone get your Heil bingo cards out, we've got a full house waiting to happen here. You don't need to tell me your experience of refugees. I really don't care. ... My point is this. People can be horrible. And that includes refugees and migrants. But it also includes natives. I've had scuffles, drunken usually, before now with people and that's been locals inevitably, I've been threatened in a former job by a local guy. Being from Birmingham, I get to see the good and the bad in a matter of seconds, and people older than me will know the bad even more - white people bombed this city and killed people having an evening out. That didn't mean I decided the Irish were scum to a man. Yes, people can be horrible irrespective of nationality, ethnicity etc. Wow, what an enlightening conclusion. You have earned yourself a sticker. Bravo. Really worth the novel you just wrote. I couldn't give a monkeys if you want to read my experiences or not. I think everyone is past the point where they know that bad people are everywhere. Your sweet little examples is just meant to show us how very open minded and tolerant you are. What a role model! You really earned the likes! I spent the first part of my Civil Service with a foundation, who's goal is to properly integrate refugees. This includes teaching them the local languages, showing them our culture (also rights and obligations), evaluating their skills to help them find a potential job (which will increase their chances of getting their application for asylum accepted). In my country we get a lot of refugees from Somalia and Eritrea, some from Syria and Bangladesh and a few from west african countries. I worked there for 2 months. The first 2 weeks I arrived highly motivated. Working overtime at minimum wage, I would go out of my way to help some very polite, respectful people. I used personal connections to get 2 guys (1 Eritrean, 1 Guinean) job offers at a Restaurant, which would drasticly increase their chances of being allowed to stay. This was not my job, but I did it anyway because I could see that they were really trying. Sometimes they even brought me job descriptions they printed out in an Internet Café. They tried to speak German to me when possible and talked to other locals in the coffee breaks. This is what we're looking for. Obviously, there were other, les ambitious "participants" aswell. I have never seen people this lazy. As soon as I left the room, they didn't work for a second. I remembered which language.exercises they were doing when I left. On my return, an hour later, they still had the same exercises on their desks. Untouched. I would hear "You don't give us enough money!" ; "We thought, that we're welcome here." and "At home they said we would get a house and live a nice life here. Where is all of it? Where?" (Thank you to all of you who posted "Refugees Welcome" to show the internet how compassionate you are. Where are you guys now? Art class ? Gender studies? Well, you're not doing anything to help here in the real world you *****!) Knowing (and seeing in my course) what status women have in the middle east, I had to explain equality. After explaining that woman are equal and not here to serve us, they would act as if they understand. Yet after this explanation, the women were still always getting them drinks from the cantine and clearing up at the end of the day whilst the men tried to hide outside. Not that the women were better. They would show no shame at all in asking me to do the simplest of tasks for them (although they would never dare ask their compatriots for the same favors). They tried to use me because they were too lazy to work themselves and believed that I was naive (which I was). Another example: "Hey dude, I might have a job offer for you. Please bring your documents with you tomorrow, so we can see if you would do ok there." Of course he "forgot" his documents at home the next day. He just didn't want to find a job, because the state gives him money for free. My motivation level started to sink because I realised that many of these people don't want to be helped. They want to be mothered and want other people to provide for them. My effort wasn't worth it. These people, mostly young and fit, are theoretically fully capable of making changes in their own countries. They have a different ideology which is deeply manifested in their heads. We cannot hope for all these people to adapt to our culture. Unlike Chindie, I will not end this post without a relevant conclusion (yours was really cute though). So here it is: You can offer all the tolerance and help you want. Some people don't want to/cannot be helped. We can deal with a few who are resistant to change, but the number of people entering Europe at the moment will shake the foundations of our cultures and countries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted March 22, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted March 22, 2016 "Really worth the novel you just wrote." >proceeds to write a novel 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LxYoungAVFC Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Keyblade said: "Really worth the novel you just wrote." >proceeds to write a novel His novel made a point that was clear before he wrote it. My novel provides a much deeper insight. It's a different situation if you buy a Kebab of someone or if you actually work woth the people in question. Edit: Working with people who have just arrived and who don't understand the language or culture. Edited March 22, 2016 by LxYoungAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted March 22, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, LxYoungAVFC said: "You don't give us enough money!" ; "We thought, that we're welcome here." and "At home they said we would get a house and live a nice life here. Where is all of it? Where?" Surprised they read the Daily Mail in Eritrea TBH... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The thing is the behaviour you've described can be present in anyone no matter the nationality, race, etc. Tarring everyone with the same brush is never a good thing. I do agree the whole 'refugees welcome' campaign has been very ill advised. Especially when you have idiots like Collymore, Sturgeon and the like saying how happy theyd be to put them up (Funny how none of them have). Only people winning from the situation at the moment are the Smugglers £££s IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 "It" is an obviously problem and there will seemingly be more attacks in Europe and most likely in this country (London). The question is what to do about it? I've always advocated a non-interventionist stance on foreign policy but so much damage has been done by intervening that 'scaling back' isn't actually going to stop any attacks and anti-west sentiment over the short-medium term. That said, it's hardly desirable to allow a large group of fascists like IS run amok in the Middle East and preventing that does require Western intervention as that region is totally incapable of sorting it out for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LxYoungAVFC Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Surprised they read the Daily Mail in Eritrea TBH... Believe it or not, I heard it more than once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 9 minutes ago, LxYoungAVFC said: His novel made a point that was clear before he wrote it. My novel provides a much deeper insight. It's a different situation if you buy a Kebab of someone or if you actually work woth the people in question. Ah but of course. Imagine how deep the insight of a person descended from the people in question would be if one were to follow that logic. Actually, don't. It's cute though that you pretend that you're coming your conclusions using "insight" and not just confirmation bias based on anecdotal evidence with a sample size of a few people though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LxYoungAVFC Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Ah but of course. Imagine how deep the insight of a person descended from the people in question would be if one were to follow that logic. Actually, don't. It's cute though that you pretend that you're coming your conclusions using "insight" and not just confirmation bias based on anecdotal evidence with a sample size of a few people though. Yes and I suspect these people were hand picked to (partially) confirm my preconceptions. Edited March 22, 2016 by LxYoungAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 minute ago, LxYoungAVFC said: Yes and I suspect these people were hand picked to (partially) confirm my preconceptions. So very close to self awareness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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