Would you swap it all for success?

[villa89]

We already had a billionaire owner who spent lots of money and I don't remember anyone on here complaining at the time. It's just a shame that the money was wasted, we hit a glass ceiling and our billionaire owner wasn't quite rich enough. Now he's lost alot of money, his NFL team and lot more money in a very expensive divorce.

 

If we did get an Usmanov type owner nobody would give two shits. Success and/or Hope = happiness for a football fan. The problem is that with the current ownership there's no hope as he is content to sit in midtable and balance the books.

Edited December 22, 2014 by villa89

[Woodytom]

Were we even up for sale?

We were floated on the stock market so effectively I think that means we were available to buy, albeit as lots of small parts. I think you're right that there's a difference between that and being 'for sale', but I honestly don't think that matters when money like that is being talked about. I don't remember chelsea being for sale, or when the Glazers bought man utd. Could be wrong of course!

Fair points.

[Raver50032]

Yes I would, but it's immaterial really cos even if you now have the money, you can't really spend it unless you are making a shed load from elsewhere.

 

The Holte will always be the Holte (to us fans), Villa Park will always be called that (by us fans) unless of course we move to a new ground by the NEC etc. Modern football is a smelly pile of shite of varying shiteness unless you are in the 'incestuous lock in Sky 5.' We missed the boat a long time ago - when finishing 2nd (89/90 and 92/93) was only good enough for UEFA Cup football and 4th (95/96) was only good enough for UEFA Cup Football.

 

Until the rules change, we are doomed to mid-table mediocre-ness and the occasionally exciting relegation scrappings.

 

I'm jealous - especially of the ultimate words removed at Chelsea. Words upon words upon words removed. Lucky words removed. A scum bag club like that with it's scum bag fans. Words removed.

 

At least we have the moral high ground with our genuine European Cup win, in a tournament full of actual league champions, and without the need for penalties. And, without a cheating, nasty word removed putting on his shirt to pose with the trophy as though he actually played the game. Total lady's private part and word removed.

 

To be honest, all that's missing is an FA Cup final win and I can die relatively happy. When clubs like Wimbledon, Portsmouth and Wigan can do it, why the hell can we not?

 

Shit, I am all miserable again now.

[Stevo985]

I honestly don't think I'd like it if we were as successful as teams like the Manchester teams and chelsea etc.

 

I know that sounds weird, but I honestly don't. I remember when we lost the league cup final to United under MON. I watched it in a bar in town.

After the game a United fan that I know found me and offered his commiserations.

 

I told him we'd have won if Vidic had been red carded, and he responded by shrugging and saying "Probably. I wouldn't have been too bothered, it's only the league cup"

 

I'd hate it if we were like that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love our club to be more successful. I'd love to start the season believing we could win the league.

But I honestly think it would take some of the joy out of football if you won everything all the time.

 

Maybe I'm in the minority.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Stevo985

[islingtonclaret]

Yes. Because it would make us relevant again. We are totally, totally irrelevant. Fans of big clubs (or any for that matter) , the media, investors and business partners do not give one shit that we won the European Cup in 1982 or the FA cup a bazillion times before the 20th century started. We actually get lampooned because we bang on about it so much.

 

I tell people in London that I support Villa and these days I might as well have said I don't follow football, such is the reaction. The only banter and chatting I do is caused by cocker-ney barra boys thinking I'm wearing a Hammers scarf.

[lapal_fan]

The older guys will not want it to happen, but that's pretty rich coming from them, seeing as they've all seen us win the biggest trophy in football and the league, plus a few League Cups.

 

I've seen us win the League Cup twice, and lose 2 finals (LC/FAC).

 

The people younger than that will not have seen us win anything.

 

Football is about winning, ergo, the billionaire is welcome.

 

There is no "soul" in football, only balance sheets and trophy cabinets.  Football is not a living thing, and we should be prepared to do what is necessary in order to win every single football match we play.

[blandy]

...There is no "soul" in football, only balance sheets and trophy cabinets... 

I see your point, but my view is that there was or is "soul" in football. It's why it captivates.

People make friends for life, they travel the world, they find new experiences, whether in an away pub talking to home fans or going to a new country or ground.

They feel as one when tragedy occurs - for example Fabrice Muamba's dice with death at WHL a few years ago, or whether it's the outpouring of support and affection for Stan Petrov. It's about Acorns as much as Arsenal.

It's about the respect for the traditions of clubs - the shirt colours, the Holte End and the Kop and so on.

These things and the hope and love and devotion are what football is really about, IMO. It's absolutely not supposed to be about winning at all costs, about how much money can be squeezed out of fans through tickets, shirts and TV subscriptions and billionaires buying a club to buy the league to publicise their Oil or resource rich bit of land, or avoid the tentacles of the KGB.

[smetrov]

 

 

Were we even up for sale?

We were floated on the stock market so effectively I think that means we were available to buy, albeit as lots of small parts. I think you're right that there's a difference between that and being 'for sale', but I honestly don't think that matters when money like that is being talked about. I don't remember chelsea being for sale, or when the Glazers bought man utd. Could be wrong of course!

Fair points.

 

[rodders0223]

No I don't think I would.

I think I would take more joy in us just winning the league cup in the next few years than just getting a rich owner and buying success.

Sure, it would be nice to go down Villa Park and see some top class players, and winning football but look at City, Arsenal, Tottenham etc... the novelty soon wears off.

 

Villa is our club, and for all the dissapointment and struggles of the past few years I would rather us earn a bit of success and joy, than just being given it on a plate.

[Villarocker]

I'm undecided. If it was the only way to ever see Villa win anything again then yes. But, if it just meant getting into line with everyone else and still not being a success than absolutely no.

 

I wonder what would happen if all Arab owned clubs decided there was to be no more alcohol consumed at any time on their premises. I wonder how many fans would say yes then?

[lapal_fan]

 

...There is no "soul" in football, only balance sheets and trophy cabinets... 

I see your point, but my view is that there was or is "soul" in football. It's why it captivates.

People make friends for life, they travel the world, they find new experiences, whether in an away pub talking to home fans or going to a new country or ground.

They feel as one when tragedy occurs - for example Fabrice Muamba's dice with death at WHL a few years ago, or whether it's the outpouring of support and affection for Stan Petrov. It's about Acorns as much as Arsenal.

It's about the respect for the traditions of clubs - the shirt colours, the Holte End and the Kop and so on.

These things and the hope and love and devotion are what football is really about, IMO. It's absolutely not supposed to be about winning at all costs, about how much money can be squeezed out of fans through tickets, shirts and TV subscriptions and billionaires buying a club to buy the league to publicise their Oil or resource rich bit of land, or avoid the tentacles of the KGB.

 

I agree with you Mr Blandy, but I think the things you've listed are a result of common interests (talking to strangers etc), or just being human (Petrov, Muamba etc).

 

You get that in all sports, look at Hughes the Australian Cricketer, a massive sadness for the Cricket world, boxers have had their moments too, likewise Rugby and any other major sport where a sad thing has happened.  I just don't think the things you've listed are solely applicable to Football.  

 

It's a very entertaining sport, the best in my opinion, but you look at some of the players twitters, not just Villa players, every Friday/Saturday before the game its "3 Points", "Time to win" etc etc.  These guys playing are athletes, they want to win.  

 

The fans are increasingly more impatient, I myself am patient and supportive and I can remove myself from the football and think, "christ, he's not had a good game, but he's working hard".  Whereas a lot of the people sitting around VP are spitting feathers because Wiemanns touch has let him down, Gabby miscontrolled it, or whatever it may be.

 

But what have we seen time and time again?  That it requires a high level of investment to do well.  We haven't got the infrastructure, the fan base or platform to not invest heavily and succeed.  95% of the teams in the 92 league pyramid are never going to win the league or the CL.  So I think, if you want to see success these days where capital = success, you have to be prepared for the people on the planet who can afford to make an average PL football team one of the elite.

[blandy]

 

 

...There is no "soul" in football, only balance sheets and trophy cabinets... 

I see your point, but my view is that there was or is "soul" in football....

I agree with you Mr Blandy, but I think the things you've listed are a result of common interests (talking to strangers etc), or just being human (Petrov, Muamba etc).

Yes, I agree. Then again, "soul" is a human thing. It's the human side of things and the human beings that gives football it's soul, IMO. Taking humans away, or pushing them away through ticket prices, TV kick off times and suppressing genuine competition and level playing field via oodles of money is anti football, anti soul.

 

I think we're pretty much saying the same things, just differently. I wouldn't really want another Man City or Chelsea to happen - even if it were to be Villa. I'd rather they went back to being clubs that belonged as much as possible to their fans, and less in hock to Arabian or Russian gazillionaires.

 

That said, what man City's owner has done has been for the most part, with some bad exceptions early on, very conscious of the local community and fanbase. I guess they can afford that level of social responsibility, but it's still nice to see that Club being treated in a good way, compared to what could have been. 

[TRS-T]

Guzan and Benteke? If Man U tried to buy them they'd be off in a heartbeat so I don't really care about them.

 

With Gabby and Grealish it's different since they are local lads etc.

 

But it would mean if a world class player was born in Birmingham we would be able to keep him so swings and roundabouts.

[Isa]

Remind me why it's not okay for City and Chelsea to "buy success" but it was perfectly fine for us to try and 'buy' fourth place during the early Lerner years again?

[Zatman]

 

Were we even up for sale?

We were floated on the stock market so effectively I think that means we were available to buy, albeit as lots of small parts. I think you're right that there's a difference between that and being 'for sale', but I honestly don't think that matters when money like that is being talked about. I don't remember chelsea being for sale, or when the Glazers bought man utd. Could be wrong of course!

 

 

was 2 years between Lerner coming in and City getting bought. I doubt we were even in their thinking

[blandy]

Remind me why it's not okay for City and Chelsea to "buy success" but it was perfectly fine for us to try and 'buy' fourth place during the early Lerner years again?

I don't think it is different, or it is only in the extent of it.

With us, when RAL took over, I was pleased his money bought better players and turned the club round.

I can honestly say though, I wasn't calling then, or now for us or him to "spend more money" and all that. I argued against people who were of that view.

Suppose he would have won us the league, or got us 4th with his money, then I'd have been happy watching the extra wins and so on, but uncomfortable with the "financial doping" as Wenger calls it.

I've always wanted Villa to do as well as it can within the resources available to us. Never to just "buy" the league.

I'm in a minority (though not a small one) I accept, but that's always the way I've been.

On my planet, it's not OK to spend money you don't have as a club to try and beat the natural odds. That means either via borrowing or massive owner intervention.

The FFP rules aren't written right, but I like the idea of financial sanity.

[Isa]

That's fair enough Blandy. As you say, you are in the minority with that, especially when it came to opposition to Lerner sanctioning spending beyond the club's means. As for me personally, I leave a lot of my scruples behind when it comes to football. As long as something is to the benefit of Aston Villa then I'm not to fussed as to the methodology behind it. I respect those that do have a more moral stance on it though, such as yourself, as long as the consistancy is there.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Isa

[AntrimBlack]

Y'know, I think the thing I "enjoy" more about us not being an oil club is that we'll have struggles (like now) and we'll have relative highs (cup finals etc).  There's no expectation to win anything so if we manage to achieve anything even close to doing that, it feels special. The cup wins back in the mid 90's feel special - maybe especially to fans like myself who weren't around for the European cup win - and they also feel more distant now.  If it happened again, it'd be brilliant.

 

Those feelings compared to "struggling" being not quite getting in to the top 4, cups meaning nothing and expecting to win the title and challenge in the Champions League season after season.  If it doesn't happen, sack the manager and spend another £100m with no recourse.  No proper hardship, just this weird self entitlement.  No brainer for me - I don't like spoiled brats as it is.

 

You have it spot on, Bobzy. I have been a supporter since 1956, and count myself very lucky to have experienced many good times, as well as the lows. But I love it when we win and accept it when we lose. I would not want to be like all these plastic fans who expect to win. I do not think they get the same level of excitement as we get with just not knowing what can happen. So a massive `no' from me. The money has killed the Premier League, but not my enthusiasm.

[mjmooney]

Y'know, I think the thing I "enjoy" more about us not being an oil club is that we'll have struggles (like now) and we'll have relative highs (cup finals etc). There's no expectation to win anything so if we manage to achieve anything even close to doing that, it feels special. The cup wins back in the mid 90's feel special - maybe especially to fans like myself who weren't around for the European cup win - and they also feel more distant now. If it happened again, it'd be brilliant.

Those feelings compared to "struggling" being not quite getting in to the top 4, cups meaning nothing and expecting to win the title and challenge in the Champions League season after season. If it doesn't happen, sack the manager and spend another £100m with no recourse. No proper hardship, just this weird self entitlement. No brainer for me - I don't like spoiled brats as it is.

You have it spot on, Bobzy. I have been a supporter since 1956, and count myself very lucky to have experienced many good times, as well as the lows. But I love it when we win and accept it when we lose. I would not want to be like all these plastic fans who expect to win. I do not think they get the same level of excitement as we get with just not knowing what can happen. So a massive `no' from me. The money has killed the Premier League, but not my enthusiasm.

^^^^

Older than me alert! Older than me alert!

[emoji2]

[Belgian guy]

No, i love this club because of the nice ppl and the way this club has its tradition. i don't want anything to change.