bobzy Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If this exchange wasn't just the usual round of posters taking cheap shots at each other, there would be an interesting question worth exploring. If Lambert doesn't take training at the club (and, according to some, few managers do that - they have coaches and themselves just "manage") what aspects of Villa's performance over the last two seasons is the manager responsible and accountable for? Style of play, fitness of players? motivation of squad? resilience when going behind in games? If the pat answer is he's ultimately responsible for all of these things, how does he influence them if he doesn't get involved in things like training? I would suggest he is mainly responsible for deploying tactics ("style of play"?), motivating the squad and squad selection. I'd assume it would be his ideas that are implemented in training (and in games) but he would take advise from his coaches over what they've seen in training - after all, they're more qualified to assess how a player is progressing/how certain things have worked in training. I doubt that he has much influence over the fitness of players (might have some sort of stock order like "they need to build up stamina"). Whilst I have no problem with Lambert not taking training, especially with answers given already, I'd like to think that he at least oversees it regularly. I'd be worried if he never turns up to a training session - and it seems incredibly unlikely that this would be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'm sure he is involved in training, I think what is being said is that he doesn't 'run' the training sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If Lambert manages anything like I do in Football Manager he assigns everything to the coaches and clicks Next to continue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2014 If Lambert doesn't take training at the club (and, according to some, few managers do that - they have coaches and themselves just "manage") what aspects of Villa's performance over the last two seasons is the manager responsible and accountable for? Style of play, fitness of players? motivation of squad? resilience when going behind in games? If the pat answer is he's ultimately responsible for all of these things, how does he influence them if he doesn't get involved in things like training? At last a sensible point relating to the issue of training! I would say as the manager he is ultimately responsible for all of the things that you list. They are his staff (the coaches) under his direction and so to an extent all these things come back to the manager. There are, as always, other factors. Such as the ability or willingness of staff to follow direction and instruction, ability of players available to him either inherited or able to purchase, players own personal levels of motivation etc. A manager is the man responsible but so many different factors contribute towards this performance and not all are as much in the managers hands as some think or make out. The two former coaches for example, I have very good reason to believe that he wanted to remove them far earlier than when they were suspended but wasn't able/allowed to do so. So yes, he appointed/selected them but if over a period of time there are issues with their performance and he isn't empowered to do something about that, how responsible is he? I'm not by any stretch of the imagination absolving Lambert of blame for our general levels of performance last season but I just don't think its quite as simple as saying it all comes back to him even if he is ultimately responsible for elements such as your describe. (I realise you weren't actually saying this) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'm sure he is involved in training, I think what is being said is that he doesn't 'run' the training sessions. Exactly this. I think a lot of this 'he isn't involved with training' stems back to when the news first came out in the public domain about Kersa and Culverhouse and I gave some back ground on here about what I'd heard had happened. I said Lambert was, following their suspension taking a more hands on approach, over time that seems to have grown into some perception that he sits playing Tetris while the players train. Lambert is a well qualified coach having studied in Germany. He has always been involved in training as far as I'm aware but like most managers, training is just one of the many facets of the job and so not something they take personally day after day. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Its interesting the point you raise about Culverhouse and Karsa and that he wanted to get rid of them far earlier. Because he obviously knew both of them very well. Their character, way of working, coaching methods etc will all have been very familiar to him and as a team they had been very successful together. So was it that the two of them were out of their depth at Villa, the club being too big a step up for them or did they change their approach and start acting in ways which came as a shock to Lambert in the negative? I guess we will never know but it seems odd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2014 The later, I believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) I am of the belief that Bradford's and Sheffield United's cup runs were freakish. It is also important to remember that both Yorkshire clubs got to the latter stages of the competition(s) and beat other top flight teams along the way. As Naz alluded to, this is not just a Villa/Lambert issue, it has happened to better teams in recent years. This is not to mention the circumstances that surrounded the cup defeats. This will come across as accepting defeat to some posters, but we were the victims of freakish cup runs on both occasions. The cup defeats are not indicative of Lambert's ability, nor should they be used to justify dismissing PL. Furthermore, no Villa supporter accepts or enjoys being defeated by a lower league team but that is the nature and beauty of cup footy. I do not want to change this "giant killing" characteristic. But what I hope Villa do is overcome the challenge, like we did under Lambert against Rotherham/Ipswich/Swindon/Norwich/Manchester City. UTV. Cup upsets are the nature of the game but I struggle to think of a premier league team who suffered 3 in 2 seasons ,2 of the 3 massive upsets at that. It is rare for a Premiership club to suffer three defeats by lower league teams, although I think the Millwall loss was understandable to an extent. We have been somewhat unfortunate to face lower league sides that went on unbelievable runs. And it is no surprise that we suffered these defeats in January, when we were decimated by injuries and in bad form. What the cup defeats really represent is a lack of quality in the squad, we sorely need fresh investment to move forward and be a competitive force on all fronts. Edited June 9, 2014 by GENTLEMAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) I'm sure he is involved in training, I think what is being said is that he doesn't 'run' the training sessions. Exactly this. I think a lot of this 'he isn't involved with training' stems back to when the news first came out in the public domain about Kersa and Culverhouse and I gave some back ground on here about what I'd heard had happened. I said Lambert was, following their suspension taking a more hands on approach, over time that seems to have grown into some perception that he sits playing Tetris while the players train. Lambert is a well qualified coach having studied in Germany. He has always been involved in training as far as I'm aware but like most managers, training is just one of the many facets of the job and so not something they take personally day after day. Yep exactly. Lambert won't be the one arranging and preparing the training sessions, he'll be involved in taking them but he won't run them himself. As you said before, I doubt many managers do (which is why teams in the modern game usually have an abundance of coaches). We have a goalkeeper coach who coaches the goalkeepers, we have a defensive coach still I believe as well. My guess would be that Culverhouse 'ran' training, in an overall sort of aspect in regards to preparation and such, with Karsa taking more of a 1-to-1 development approach working on individual aspects of different players. I have no idea how well Keane is with coaching but I think he'll take the role that Culverhouse had, with Lambert bringing in another coach to take the role that Karsa had. Edited June 9, 2014 by samjp26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan501 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I honestly believe if lambert had bought some experience in previous seasons we would have been in a more advanced stage now. Imo lambert was trying to be clever signing youbg and hungry we all cried out and said gwt aome oldguard in we are becoming the dadd army that big ron had near the ens if his tenure when richardson macgrath houghton etc were at club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannockVillan Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 The later, I believe. Trent. Why do you think this happened? Seems strange for coaches to go on frolics of their own. Was there some sort of spat between them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 11, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 11, 2014 The later, I believe. Trent. Why do you think this happened? Seems strange for coaches to go on frolics of their own. Was there some sort of spat between them? For a host of reasons, not least keeping the thread on topic and avoiding liable for myself and the site I'd rather not say any more on this. I'd rather look forward rather than back, I just try and correct some of the assumption people make that are repeated often enough that they become widely held as being facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Just been told lambert has resigned, according to twitter? Dont use twitter so i dont know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Think someone is having you on mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If it says he's resigned on Twitter the truth will be that he's just signed a new 10 year contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Fair enough ...got my hopes up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 the fact only 3 posts after you said it shows how reliable people on here find Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan501 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Just been told lambert has resigned, according to twitter? Dont use twitter so i dont know... If true which is unlikely nobody in there right mind would come in not even someone on the dole its just not a good job to have with muppet lerner in charge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) I don't think in the history of the club has a manager stayed in a job (after these performances & results) due to the circumstances we find our selves in. I never thought i would say this but while Lerner is the owner, I think I would plump for Lambert to stay. Only when we have a new owner will I change my opinion. Edited June 21, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I can't see how this season can be anything but a disaster for Lambert. A lot of fans have already turned and with an absent owner Lambert is the face of Aston villa. The team isn't good enough to perform well next year so unfortunately I can't picture anything other than Lambert getting a lot of stick from day 1. And while I don't think he will want to walk away from a payout how much will he be willing to take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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