lexicon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 When Man City destroy us 10-0 on Wednesday all you Lambert Luvvies are going to want him out as much as everyone else. What an incredibly childish thing to say. What Lambert luvvies? I thought labelling fans was against site rules anyway but you're basically referring to anyone who doesn't massively criticise him, despite the fact that these people are mostly neutral towards him. Illogical and immature. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If we beat Spurs we'll probably finish 12th. Considering a lot of the luck we've been dealt with injuries that sounds like progress to me 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 OVF, Kozak was very much needed. He got injured, or we'd be playing him every week now. The other two combined cost less than half what you want to spend on a CAM if you're a young side building for the future. I can't say I agree. Yes, him being injured is not great. But let's look at what we have that can play in the striker role: - Benteke - Agbonlahor - Wiemann - Bowery - Carruthers Now you can say what you like about their ability - but cover? We had plenty. How many CAM's do we have? I'd rather have Kozak start than anyone of those barring Benteke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'm no Lambert luvvie and it's really just the fact he might just move on and prove himself elsewhere. At times, say against Chelsea he matched us up tactically and we won. Both Villa and Lambert have potential so I'd like to see him given a chance with financial backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'm no Lambert luvvie and it's really just the fact he might just move on and prove himself elsewhere. At times, say against Chelsea he matched us up tactically and we won. Both Villa and Lambert have potential so I'd like to see him given a chance with financial backing. Agree. Which manager this season hasn't made bad decisions. Had real bad luck with Okore kozak and Benteke injuries and he was on the right track at the time taking a punt on Hoolahan and we could still finish 12th. MON 11th first season with way better midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted May 6, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'd rather have Kozak start than anyone of those barring Benteke. I probably agree - but that wasn't the point. We had ample cover for the position. We had NO attacking midfielder. Not one. Why buy more cover instead of filling the gaping hole in our midfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'd rather have Kozak start than anyone of those barring Benteke. I probably agree - but that wasn't the point. We had ample cover for the position. We had NO attacking midfielder. Not one. Why buy more cover instead of filling the gaping hole in our midfield? Lack of availability? Didn't want to change the style? Thought Benteke would be leaving? I've no idea really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted May 6, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 6, 2014 Lack of availability? Didn't want to change the style? Thought Benteke would be leaving? I've no idea really. Availability? Kiyotake was no chance. Similar for Hoolihan with Norwich refusing to let him go. Are there no more attacking midfielders anywhere else in the world? Didn't want to change the style? If he gets an AM in this window, will he change our style? Probably. Why wait, then? Thought Benteke would be leaving? Kozac was signed after Benteke committed. Bad management? It would appear the most likely reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If we finished 10th this season with, say, 10 more points - would it then have been labeled bad management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If we finished 10th this season with, say, 10 more points - would it then have been labeled bad management? But we didn't and we won't. We were close to getting relegated, again this in the second season was not good enough. Put it this way, regardless of finances no other manager would have been offered another season with the results we have had!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If we finished 10th this season with, say, 10 more points - would it then have been labeled bad management? But we didn't and we won't. We were close to getting relegated, again this in the second season was not good enough. Put it this way, regardless of finances no other manager would have been offered another season with the results we have had!! But it wasn't as if we were bound to have failed this season - we all felt under McLeish that there was next to no hope and absolutely zero evidence of progression/direction on the pitch - whereas with Lambert there have been times where we've seen encouraging things. Few and and far between of late, mind. Circumstances count for quite a lot in football, I feel - which is why I haven't completely given up on Lambert (as I've said before, I'm neutral and not overly bothered either way if he stays or goes) and with slightly better luck we could've found ourselves in the aforementioned position. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I remember reading back through several of the threads what differentiated Lambert from Mcleish last season was that under Mcleish we got steadily worse. That was used to defend Lambert and it had some merit but not now. There really isn't anything else to defend him with now other than some thinking we'd be better off sticking with Lambert because the pool of managers available are nothing to write home about. That really depends on what actual pool of managers any new owners would be looking at and may be outside the boundaries of what we currently think are realistic. Exactly...Lambert is a decent bloke who is doing his best but unfortunately that is not good enough. He has come to a bigger club and failed. He knew the constants and took the job but has not managed to get the side to to the basics properly in many games. Add to that his very limited tactical skills and he is never going to get us a top half finish. Granted with more money he would get us higher up the table but we will never challenge for anything with him beyond the occasional cup run. Even if Lerner stays we should change manager but we won't. If new owners come in who will invest we need to have a manager capable of getting more out of the players we retain and bring in the right players to up skill the squad. What pool of managers we look at is really down to the ambition of the new owners which at this stage we don't know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 he is never going to get us a top half finish. Granted with more money he would get us higher up the table Ummm... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I'm no Lambert luvvie and it's really just the fact he might just move on and prove himself elsewhere. At times, say against Chelsea he matched us up tactically and we won. Both Villa and Lambert have potential so I'd like to see him given a chance with financial backing. True, I think the stick he gets for his tactics is a little unfair sometimes. He has mixed things up from time to time with a specific plan in place that has got results. Sometimes he does it and it still goes horribly wrong, but I think he showed a lot more flexibility than O'Neill and McLeish did. Sometimes you just have to put your hands up and say whatever formation you play, you're going to get beaten in this league, especially with the squad he's had to build on a shoestring. There are things that have annoyed me, especially picking Baker, but if Okore gets back then hopefully he won't have to do it any more. Plus if his rumoured transfer targets were true, then if given an actual chance to bring them in next season then we could be a bit tasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I am in two minds on Lambert. He has been dealt a really bad hand, in terms of what he has inherited squad wise, funds that have been released to him, and bad luck with injuries to key players. From rumours we hear, he hasn't been able to buy players that he would have liked to, which means we are never really going to see his actual plan. However, on the flip side he hasn't made us hard to beat. Pulis has come into Crystal Palace and transformed them into a hard to beat team and performed very well. You can't say that he has spent more on players and had longer to mould the team, because he hasn't. Now I am not saying Pulis is the answer, but he did well with what hand he was dealt. I would have hoped that Lambert if he had anything about him would have been able to do the same. Lambert is still young in the managerial role, wheras Pulis has been around for a number of years so knows the ropes. Lambert is still young as managers go, so he may well have learnt lessons and come out of this stronger as a result. I do think though, that if we are taken over then Lambert will be gone. The new owner will most likely want their own guy in charge. Let's hope that any new owners have a decent plan in place along with a fat wedge and patience to see it come to fruiition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Lack of availability? Didn't want to change the style? Thought Benteke would be leaving? I've no idea really. Availability? Kiyotake was no chance. Similar for Hoolihan with Norwich refusing to let him go. Are there no more attacking midfielders anywhere else in the world? Didn't want to change the style? If he gets an AM in this window, will he change our style? Probably. Why wait, then? Thought Benteke would be leaving? Kozac was signed after Benteke committed. Bad management? It would appear the most likely reason. AIUI, the two issues are completely unconnected. We tried repeatedly to get an AM all last summer and failed. Then on deadline day, a chance opened up to sign a guy who had been the leading scorer in the Europa League last season, and we took it. I don't see any reason to believe it was either Kozak or an AM. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 . We tried repeatedly to get an AM all last summer and failed. Did we? I must have missed all that. Who did we try for and what were the reasons for failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 took nearly a quarter of our points against top 4 teams which shows their is ability in this team and defensive ability, don't know why we cant do it against the lesser teams 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Briny, for every Tony Pulis (apparently everyone's top fave managerialist of the day) there's four or five new managers who've failed to have any positive impact on their side's performance. If Tony Pulis is the exception, give me the rule. Maybe it's just a question of there being good managers who can make a difference and bad ones who can't. Palace got a good one. Turns out we got a bad one (not for the first time under current ownership). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Seriously OVF, don't you think Lambert would have loved to sign the players we need to play in a different style? No manager refuses to sign players: Lambert would have wanted a creative CAM more than any of us. Maybe I'm in a minority, but I just don't believe that our problems could all be resolved if only the manager chose to tell the players we have to just go out and play in a different "style". The players you have determine what style you can play. It's a very good point you make concerning 'the players you have determine what style you can play' which incapsulates what I was originally trying to say. With few exceptions Lambert bases his style of play around a big man up front. He has purchased Bowery, Kozak, Benteke and replaced the second two with Holt. If we buy better players in the summer particularly in midfield do you think he will suddenly bench those front players and replace them with either Gabby upfront on his own or two new smaller but more nippy forwards to encompass a change of style? That's what I was getting at with the signing of Holt. He might have been able to bring another forward in on loan even from Europe to change our style of play but he chose to go with yet another big target man up front. You also have to remember that it was he who brought those 17-18 players in and if we are going to give Lambert some credit then he brought those players in with a style of play in mind which would substantiate your original point and mine that even with better players he would still play them in his preferred system with a target man upfront which would nevertheless still produce the archaic, insipid hoof football we've seen while he has been our manager. My opinion may be bollox but it is bollox based on what I've seen first hand with few exceptions over the last two seasons under Lambert and even with better players I don't think we will necessarily see better football under him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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