ozvillafan Posted February 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2014 What was not calculated into the managerial selection was the plan to build a young, cheap team, forgetting for a minute where we bought them from and for how much. Young players need nurturing, they need to be developed on so many different levels, it would take a specialised manager and coach to make the plan work. The greatest advantage for a manager working with young talent is they will give you everything, they want to learn, improve and they listen, hanging on your every word. Lambert/Culverhouse is not the right management team to take on that role, as despite Lambert's qualities he was/is still learning the job himself. He was used to more experienced players, lower league cloggers that knew exactly what they had to do and easily understood what he wanted. Maybe somebody like Carlos Queiroz should have been the choice in this case, who has a vast knowledge of working with youngsters as well as PL experience. Excellent post, RICO. I only quoted this part, as it is exactly how I feel about Lambert. My concern is that, having added a few more quality players this summer, we will not improve under Lambert. After all, "quality" does not necessarily mean "experienced" - especially with the budget we have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 How much did Matic give to Chelsea when they got him for 1.5m? (as one of your examples) I have not tracked the players life.....are your saying you wouldn't have him in our team? its like i said in my earlier post you make examples in a few seconds and hope folk get your general point, you make examples to help your, point not prove it.....we buy too many shit players was my point....but usually when you say that, some come back with well we don't spend enough money, when bent @ 20 odd mill and zog at 10 mill or curtis davies or one of your own better examples with a big spend have not done it for us. we have just had too many of them in recent years..... we all know it happens, it has happened too much to us IMO Lambert hasn't been given the chance to spend big. And before anyone says he's wasted money on players, when you're spending a Max of £3 mil on a player, you're going to get more misses than hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) How much did Matic give to Chelsea when they got him for 1.5m? (as one of your examples) I have not tracked the players life.....are your saying you wouldn't have him in our team? its like i said in my earlier post you make examples in a few seconds and hope folk get your general point, you make examples to help your, point not prove it.....we buy too many shit players was my point....but usually when you say that, some come back with well we don't spend enough money, when bent @ 20 odd mill and zog at 10 mill or curtis davies or one of your own better examples with a big spend have not done it for us. we have just had too many of them in recent years..... we all know it happens, it has happened too much to us IMO Lambert hasn't been given the chance to spend big. And before anyone says he's wasted money on players, when you're spending a Max of £3 mil on a player, you're going to get more misses than hits. Saunders didn't,Taylor didn't, Little didn't.....in monetary comparison..... Edited February 25, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 How much did Matic give to Chelsea when they got him for 1.5m? (as one of your examples) I have not tracked the players life.....are your saying you wouldn't have him in our team? its like i said in my earlier post you make examples in a few seconds and hope folk get your general point, you make examples to help your, point not prove it.....we buy too many shit players was my point....but usually when you say that, some come back with well we don't spend enough money, when bent @ 20 odd mill and zog at 10 mill or curtis davies or one of your own better examples with a big spend have not done it for us. we have just had too many of them in recent years..... we all know it happens, it has happened too much to us IMO Lambert hasn't been given the chance to spend big. And before anyone says he's wasted money on players, when you're spending a Max of £3 mil on a player, you're going to get more misses than hits. Saunders didn't,Taylor didn't, Little didn't.....in monetary comparison..... You can't compare how football is now with back then. There wasn't 5 teams spending £100 mil a season then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 How much did Matic give to Chelsea when they got him for 1.5m? (as one of your examples) I have not tracked the players life.....are your saying you wouldn't have him in our team? its like i said in my earlier post you make examples in a few seconds and hope folk get your general point, you make examples to help your, point not prove it.....we buy too many shit players was my point....but usually when you say that, some come back with well we don't spend enough money, when bent @ 20 odd mill and zog at 10 mill or curtis davies or one of your own better examples with a big spend have not done it for us. we have just had too many of them in recent years..... we all know it happens, it has happened too much to us IMO Lambert hasn't been given the chance to spend big. And before anyone says he's wasted money on players, when you're spending a Max of £3 mil on a player, you're going to get more misses than hits. Saunders didn't,Taylor didn't, Little didn't.....in monetary comparison..... You can't compare how football is now with back then. There wasn't 5 teams spending £100 mil a season then. I nearly wrote that response for you it was so predictable. Its a stock answer to everything.....but in reality,everything is relative. Liverpool was buying all the best players in Saunders day and Bobby Robson was attracting most of the best talent at Ipswich,yes back water Ipswich, Manchester Utd was exactly skint either....but of course players wasn't interested in money then, its a new thing. the bloody amounts are but the principle is as old as time.....players have always been interested in money...who isn't. sure there is a different landscape, but there has always been problems of one thing or another for all managers....They have to rise above it, the good ones do and the not so good ones blame lack of money.....and some fans buy it. This money business tickles me, its as if its all new, do you think in 20 years time they will be saying, there wasn't a lust for money back in 2014 was there......not like now, though ay in 2034 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 How much did Matic give to Chelsea when they got him for 1.5m? (as one of your examples) I have not tracked the players life.....are your saying you wouldn't have him in our team? its like i said in my earlier post you make examples in a few seconds and hope folk get your general point, you make examples to help your, point not prove it.....we buy too many shit players was my point....but usually when you say that, some come back with well we don't spend enough money, when bent @ 20 odd mill and zog at 10 mill or curtis davies or one of your own better examples with a big spend have not done it for us. we have just had too many of them in recent years..... we all know it happens, it has happened too much to us IMO Lambert hasn't been given the chance to spend big. And before anyone says he's wasted money on players, when you're spending a Max of £3 mil on a player, you're going to get more misses than hits. If you're buying cheaper you have to do more research to ensure that the player is suitable. When you have more money you can gamble more. The likes of Luna/Bowery didn't come with any reputation of being good footballers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 How much did Matic give to Chelsea when they got him for 1.5m? (as one of your examples) I have not tracked the players life.....are your saying you wouldn't have him in our team? its like i said in my earlier post you make examples in a few seconds and hope folk get your general point, you make examples to help your, point not prove it.....we buy too many shit players was my point....but usually when you say that, some come back with well we don't spend enough money, when bent @ 20 odd mill and zog at 10 mill or curtis davies or one of your own better examples with a big spend have not done it for us. we have just had too many of them in recent years..... we all know it happens, it has happened too much to us IMO Lambert hasn't been given the chance to spend big. And before anyone says he's wasted money on players, when you're spending a Max of £3 mil on a player, you're going to get more misses than hits. Saunders didn't,Taylor didn't, Little didn't.....in monetary comparison..... You can't compare how football is now with back then. There wasn't 5 teams spending £100 mil a season then. I nearly wrote that response for you it was so predictable. Its a stock answer to everything.....but in reality,everything is relative. Liverpool was buying all the best players in Saunders day and Bobby Robson was attracting most of the best talent at Ipswich,yes back water Ipswich, Manchester Utd was exactly skint either....but of course players wasn't interested in money then, its a new thing. the bloody amounts are but the principle is as old as time.....players have always been interested in money...who isn't. sure there is a different landscape, but there has always been problems of one thing or another for all managers....They have to rise above it, the good ones do and the not so good ones blame lack of money.....and some fans buy it. This money business tickles me, its as if its all new, do you think in 20 years time they will be saying, there wasn't a lust for money back in 2014 was there......not like now, though ay in 2034 The playing field was a lot more even in the eighties and it's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. Thats why Ipswich could challenge, why Forest could come up and challenge straight away and win titles and European Cups. Are you seriously trying to suggest that a team could get promotion now and challenge for the title, without having a Man City like backer? Comparing Lambert to Saunders is pointless. Saunders took over a team in Div 2, carrying on the rebuilding work started by Vic Crowe. He had enough backing to break the clubs transfer record when he signed Withe. Lambert has had to rebuild the squad, while remaining in the top flight. With a very modest amount 'per' player to spend. Whether you consider his purchases as good or bad is one thing but to suggest that his position is 'relative' to Saunders or Little is quite simply ridiculous. It's any excuse, it seems to me, slate Lambert without giving him any acknowledgement for the difficulties he's faced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 26, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 26, 2014 ha ha...If you express an opinion without an example, folk say give us an example, if you give and example its cherry picking or a poor example.....its a bloody great cop out. we have bought more poor buys than good ones and that is one of the main reasons why we are in the shit.....you get to a point where you can't keep funding poor buys. don't ****Ing ask me for an example.come on You can't possibly expect to post a comparison between our as yet unproven summer signing and 4 of the biggest bargains the league has ever seen and not get some criticism. Its not a cop out to call you out on that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) How much did Matic give to Chelsea when they got him for 1.5m? (as one of your examples) I have not tracked the players life.....are your saying you wouldn't have him in our team? its like i said in my earlier post you make examples in a few seconds and hope folk get your general point, you make examples to help your, point not prove it.....we buy too many shit players was my point....but usually when you say that, some come back with well we don't spend enough money, when bent @ 20 odd mill and zog at 10 mill or curtis davies or one of your own better examples with a big spend have not done it for us. we have just had too many of them in recent years..... we all know it happens, it has happened too much to us IMO Lambert hasn't been given the chance to spend big. And before anyone says he's wasted money on players, when you're spending a Max of £3 mil on a player, you're going to get more misses than hits. Saunders didn't,Taylor didn't, Little didn't.....in monetary comparison..... You can't compare how football is now with back then. There wasn't 5 teams spending £100 mil a season then. I nearly wrote that response for you it was so predictable. Its a stock answer to everything.....but in reality,everything is relative. Liverpool was buying all the best players in Saunders day and Bobby Robson was attracting most of the best talent at Ipswich,yes back water Ipswich, Manchester Utd was exactly skint either....but of course players wasn't interested in money then, its a new thing. the bloody amounts are but the principle is as old as time.....players have always been interested in money...who isn't. sure there is a different landscape, but there has always been problems of one thing or another for all managers....They have to rise above it, the good ones do and the not so good ones blame lack of money.....and some fans buy it. This money business tickles me, its as if its all new, do you think in 20 years time they will be saying, there wasn't a lust for money back in 2014 was there......not like now, though ay in 2034 The playing field was a lot more even in the eighties and it's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. Thats why Ipswich could challenge, why Forest could come up and challenge straight away and win titles and European Cups. Are you seriously trying to suggest that a team could get promotion now and challenge for the title, without having a Man City like backer? Comparing Lambert to Saunders is pointless. Saunders took over a team in Div 2, carrying on the rebuilding work started by Vic Crowe. He had enough backing to break the clubs transfer record when he signed Withe. Lambert has had to rebuild the squad, while remaining in the top flight. With a very modest amount 'per' player to spend. Whether you consider his purchases as good or bad is one thing but to suggest that his position is 'relative' to Saunders or Little is quite simply ridiculous. It's any excuse, it seems to me, slate Lambert without giving him any acknowledgement for the difficulties he's faced. I don't accept your argument with the simplicity that it is delivered....its a tad defeatist, but hey the big sums make it difficult, thats why Mourinho threw the towel in at Porto, because he couldn't compete with Spains big 2....oh wait for it Mourinho is an exception...sorry can't use that one.....must compare with the also rans, thats our kind of manager, to fit in with all the excuses we are surrounded by. Peter Withe may have been OUR biggest signing but in comparison to the bigger players in the first division he was a modest purchase. you have to have some aspirational tendency and when managers don't deliver......it has to be said. we can do better if we search for it rather than accept the status quo. Ps don't you think Martinez has had a difficult time and years of struggling at wigan, could have swamped him at Everton....he could have easily been out of his depth. Edited February 26, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 When Lambert took over people were comparing him to Rodgers. Now I know that Liverpool's budget is way ahead of ours (so it most of the league it appears) but even on a tactical level Rodgers seems ahead of our Paul. Yet ahead Villa appear at a crossroads with both manager and owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Where have i said anything 'defeatist' I'm simply pointing out that your comparison with the job facing Lambert and the situation faced by Saunders and Little is ridiculous. Where have I mentioned Porto or Mourinhio? What a 'good' strawman argument that is. I am far from defeatist, which is rather an offensive term in my mind. I want and EXPECT Villa to be challenging at the top end of the table. I don't expect it to happen 18 months into a managers reign, when he's had to massively cut the wage bill and rebuild the squad. With the high earners now all but gone from the club I expect to see Lambert able to spend more per player in the summer and bring in much needed reliability in key areas and for Villa to have a much improved season next season, especially at home, than this season. Patience is not the same as defeatism. To say Peter Withe was a modest purchase is wrong, plain and simple. He wasn't the biggest transfer fee of the time, granted, but it was still a decent amount. What the hell has Martinez got to do with anything? Edited February 26, 2014 by Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Martinez joined a fairly stable Everton side, with a squad that Moyes had been building steadily for a while. An Everton side that hadn't battled relegation two seasons in a row, like Villa were when Lambert joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 How much did Matic give to Chelsea when they got him for 1.5m? (as one of your examples) I have not tracked the players life.....are your saying you wouldn't have him in our team? I only asked because your original list of examples appeared to be used to say that we don't get good value for money. Then you said that the point you were trying to make was that we've bought players that haven't given enough for the team. I was just wondering what the original signing of Matic was mentioned for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I don't accept your argument with the simplicity that it is delivered....its a tad defeatist, but hey the big sums make it difficult, thats why Mourinho threw the towel in at Porto, because he couldn't compete with Spains big 2....oh wait for it Mourinho is an exception...sorry can't use that one.....must compare with the also rans, thats our kind of manager, to fit in with all the excuses we are surrounded by That Porto team were hardly paupers, they had Deco, Carvalho, Nuno Valente, Paolo Ferreira, Costinha, Maniche who would all play in Portugal team that got to Euro 2004 final. Cant compare that Porto team to Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Was going to respond but others have already said what I would have. Money isn't everything but its hugely important in today's game. Hull, Cardiff and palace have all spent more than us for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Moyes out by mutual consent? Should we take action? I don't even know any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AvfcRigo82 Posted February 26, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 26, 2014 Greetings folks Returning to the boards after a long absence. I have barely commentated on here all season and hardly even browsed to read the topics. I have however been paying attention to Villa without the miss guided opinions of villa talk to contrast any clouds of vision. Now for all it is worth I believe real progress has been made on the pitch in the space of these last 12 months. This time last year we had played 27 games, we where 18th on 24pts and only 7pts from 20th with a -36 GD and a team still half full of high earning deadwood and not a hope in hell did we think we were going to survive. This season on 27 games we are currently in 13th on 28pts and only 7pts from 20th and a -10 GD and a chance that we could still finnish in the top 10! If you told me at the start of this season we will be there or thereabouts near that 10th spot I would have took it there and then considering the circumstances of where this club has been and came from in the last 4 years!. Lambert is doing a very tidy steady job being this not even his second full season yet and I am already reading people ready to turn on him! The man should have the contact extension placed in front of him at the end of the season based on a full 24 month comparison. He has in my opinion worked wonders with the shoe string budget he has worked on. There has been some nice little signings, there has been some really bizarre signings but overall progress is still happening slowly but surely. The man has barely finished getting rid of the deadwood of the last 3 managers and not even finished fully building his own team yet and already people are getting impatient and starting to threaten to turn. It is just unbelievable, I tell you now, if we get rid of Lambert then it definitely is curtains for Aston Villa. Run by a CEO who has not a sodding clue what he is doing, Lambert is our last hope of keeping a decent manager! I don't know who people think we would replace him with but looking at what will be in place is a half built team from the 4th manager in 4 years and limited resources available at this club, combined with the impatient fan 2 year cycle syndrome - no one in there right mind would take this on this job unless they did not have a clue what was going on! I am happy with how Lambert is progressing us slowly and gradually as a team year by year whilst coming up against some challenging situations along the way and working within a tight budget and still clearing deadwood is very fine doing and I would like to see him here for another 3 seasons if we can keep improving how we have in this last near 2 seasons under his management! LAMBERT IN! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Now for all it is worth I believe real progress has been made on the pitch in the space of these last 12 months. I've been hearing this for most of the season and I'll be very surprised if you can say this at the end of the season. We look very likely to finish on around the same points with the football worse and record breaking home form. This after Lambert was able to add to his squad last season and have another pre season to work with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Moyes out by mutual consent? Should we take action? I don't even know any more. Lerner's the problem. Lambert's going nowhere and if he was imagine the task in front of the next poor sap who took the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I'd take Moyes over Lambert in a heartbeat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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