LondonLax Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I don't think anyone on here knows enough about the intimate details of the situation to dismiss the story as 'rubbish'. No one here has access to the HR records of the clubs showing who applied for what role and who was selected and by what criteria. Michael Johnson (ex-blose), in an interview last year, said he applied for 30 coaching roles after being released by Notts County and was only interviewed for three of the roles. This despite him holding the highest UEFA pro licence and having success coaching at youth level. His replacement at Notts County only had the B-licence. He's not calling the game institutionally racist but asked for a level playing field where people holding the same qualifications are treated the same when applying for jobs. I don't think anyone on here would disagree with this? As others have said, talent tends to rise to the top in football. I just don't buy into this idea that there is racism against black managers in England when black players are very widely accept in the game. Talented black players certainly don't get held back because of their race so why would that be the case with black managers? Because everyone is comfortable with the idea that black people are good athletes. Black people being seen as intelligent tactical thinkers still faces resistance in some quarters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I don't think anyone on here knows enough about the intimate details of the situation to dismiss the story as 'rubbish'. No one here has access to the HR records of the clubs showing who applied for what role and who was selected and by what criteria. Michael Johnson (ex-blose), in an interview last year, said he applied for 30 coaching roles after being released by Notts County and was only interviewed for three of the roles. This despite him holding the highest UEFA pro licence and having success coaching at youth level. His replacement at Notts County only had the B-licence. He's not calling the game institutionally racist but asked for a level playing field where people holding the same qualifications are treated the same when applying for jobs. I don't think anyone on here would disagree with this? As others have said, talent tends to rise to the top in football. I just don't buy into this idea that there is racism against black managers in England when black players are very widely accept in the game. Talented black players certainly don't get held back because of their race so why would that be the case with black managers? Because everyone is comfortable with the idea that black people are good athletes. Black people being seen as intelligent tactical thinkers still faces resistance in some quarters. It might not be that which the discrimination is against. If they make it in the game and want to pursue a career in coaching they're intelligent enough. More to the point, perhaps: why are there so many top Scottish and Irish managers and so few English? Surely the Scottish and Irish managers aren't more intelligent and better tactical thinkers. However, they are known, for cultural reasons or whatever, for being strong man-managers. Aggressive, shouty, rude. English managers are thought too polite. How about blacks? Black people are stereotypically thought of as happy fellows. Not mean and nasty "psychos" who will cut the bloated ego of a sports-star down to a manageable size like a Glaswegian or Irishman. So it could be man-management factor that is the "hidden-resistance." Are blacks thought of as too charming and not aggressive enough to be managers? Or it could just be that not enough until now have got their coaching badges and tried to make a career of it. This is a "watch this space" topic, nothing can be known for sure until the up-coming surge has had their go at it. The exceptions make this more obvious. The bad side of Paul Ince, "The Guv'nor," was meant to be tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I don't think anyone on here knows enough about the intimate details of the situation to dismiss the story as 'rubbish'. No one here has access to the HR records of the clubs showing who applied for what role and who was selected and by what criteria. Michael Johnson (ex-blose), in an interview last year, said he applied for 30 coaching roles after being released by Notts County and was only interviewed for three of the roles. This despite him holding the highest UEFA pro licence and having success coaching at youth level. His replacement at Notts County only had the B-licence. He's not calling the game institutionally racist but asked for a level playing field where people holding the same qualifications are treated the same when applying for jobs. I don't think anyone on here would disagree with this? As others have said, talent tends to rise to the top in football. I just don't buy into this idea that there is racism against black managers in England when black players are very widely accept in the game. Talented black players certainly don't get held back because of their race so why would that be the case with black managers? Because everyone is comfortable with the idea that black people are good athletes. Black people being seen as intelligent tactical thinkers still faces resistance in some quarters. Thing is, football is a pretty complex game these days and top level players have to follow a lot of tactical instructions and the like. Once again though, talent rises to the top and chairmen are not going to pass up the chance to hire a successful black manager (e.g. Chris Powell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Ugo Ehiogu has been working with the Tottenham Academy and is now coach of Tottenham U-21s. I'd say he's one to watch because the Tottenham youth are very highly rated at the moment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugo_Ehiogu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Even the chaps from Cool Runnings had a white coach. Corruption is everywhere. The worst is seeing all these European managers in charge of African national teams. Foreign managers should be banned in international football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) The stat that annoyed me most from this thread is 30% of players in English football are black, yet there's only 2/92 managers. Surely that's as ridiculously poor an argument as saying There's 85% white people in the UK, yet a far smaller number % in English football. Does that mean white players aren't being given a chance? Does it ****. I just don't buy it. At all. People aren't going to hinder themselves by not picking the best candidate just because of his ethnicity. Just like there's no anti-English thing in the Premier League. The managers at the top are foreign and are picked because they're the best. Not because they are white. Edited September 26, 2014 by kurtsimonw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Even the chaps from Cool Runnings had a white coach. Corruption is everywhere. The worst is seeing all these European managers in charge of African national teams. Foreign managers should be banned in international football. Why is it so bad? It actually benefits these teams because Europe is where a lot of the game's managerial talent and experience is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Even the chaps from Cool Runnings had a white coach. Corruption is everywhere. The worst is seeing all these European managers in charge of African national teams. They've applied the reverse Rooney rule and appointed the white applicant. Problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Why? Because foreign players are not allowed. It's supposed to be a competition between the best talent from two nations. Even the chaps from Cool Runnings had a white coach. Corruption is everywhere. The worst is seeing all these European managers in charge of African national teams. Foreign managers should be banned in international football. Why is it so bad? It actually benefits these teams because Europe is where a lot of the game's managerial talent and experience is. Because if I'm watching the African Cup of Nations I want to see the best African managers pitted against each other in the same way that the best African players are up against each other on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 If I was a black manager, and I got offered an interview simply because of my skin colour I would probably sue them for racism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) Even the chaps from Cool Runnings had a white coach. Corruption is everywhere. The worst is seeing all these European managers in charge of African national teams. Foreign managers should be banned in international football. Why is it so bad? It actually benefits these teams because Europe is where a lot of the game's managerial talent and experience is. Because if I'm watching the African Cup of Nations I want to see the best African managers pitted against each other in the same way that the best African players are up against each other on the pitch. We've been through this before and I still don't know why the nationality of the managers bothers you so much. Tournaments aren't about finding out who the best manager is, they're about who the best team of players are. Edited September 26, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 How about blacks? Black people are stereotypically thought of as happy fellows. Not mean and nasty "psychos" who will cut the bloated ego of a sports-star down to a manageable size like a Glaswegian or Irishman. I've read this paragraph a few times and can't work out if this is the work of a genius Partridge-esque parody account or the biggest moron on the internet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinityRoadSteps Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 How about blacks? Black people are stereotypically thought of as happy fellows. Not mean and nasty "psychos" who will cut the bloated ego of a sports-star down to a manageable size like a Glaswegian or Irishman. I've read this paragraph a few times and can't work out if this is the work of a genius Partridge-esque parody account or the biggest moron on the internet. I think most of us know the answer to that question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 How about blacks? Black people are stereotypically thought of as happy fellows. Not mean and nasty "psychos" who will cut the bloated ego of a sports-star down to a manageable size like a Glaswegian or Irishman. I've read this paragraph a few times and can't work out if this is the work of a genius Partridge-esque parody account or the biggest moron on the internet. Con is the gift that keeps on giving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Even the chaps from Cool Runnings had a white coach. Corruption is everywhere. The worst is seeing all these European managers in charge of African national teams. Foreign managers should be banned in international football. Why is it so bad? It actually benefits these teams because Europe is where a lot of the game's managerial talent and experience is. Because if I'm watching the African Cup of Nations I want to see the best African managers pitted against each other in the same way that the best African players are up against each other on the pitch. We've been through this before and I still don't know why the nationality of the managers bothers you so much. Tournaments aren't about finding out who the best manager is, they're about who the best team of players are. Got to be honest though this sits outside of the context of the thread but I also believe that only nationals of that country should be allowed as manager. As mentioned it is all about the talent from that country. Then again we're moving toward an age where the likes of Diego Costa can play for both Brazil and Spain so probably a redundant perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Rules for International football are getting silly anyway now, I agree. If you've heard of a country you can play for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Let's not pretend that racism does not exist in daily life, so why do people think football is different? It's not inconceivable that football in England is full of subconscious prejudice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2014 Let's not pretend that racism does not exist in daily life, so why do people think football is different? It's not inconceivable that football in England is full of subconscious prejudice. Has anyone actually suggested that racism doesn't exist in football? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Let's not pretend that racism does not exist in daily life, so why do people think football is different? It's not inconceivable that football in England is full of subconscious prejudice. Has anyone actually suggested that racism doesn't exist in football? Yes. Read between the lines...."If they were good enough....". All I need to say that if you have never experienced prejudice, than you don't know what you are talking about. Prejudice exists, and it exists everywhere. Superstars like Paul Ince and John Barnes are not good enough examples of black managers getting a chance. They got to manage because they were so much better players than most others. That is the threshold black managers need to overcome. They need to be much better than the white. Look at Brian Deane. Why did he not get a chance in England? Why is he managing a shit team in Norway, and doing remarkably well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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