TrentVilla Posted October 8, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 8, 2014 I not going to respond to most of this, because I don't care right now. Just don't assume anything about my personal experiences...you're going to get it wrong anyway. I haven't, I made an assumption that your personal experiences which you alluded to were shaping your views on what you believed were peoples attitudes in this thread. That isn't the same thing. I'm not assuming anything about your personal experiences for the very reason you say but for exactly the same reason you shouldn't assume to know that people are on some level prejudice because they don't agree with you. I am not so sure about the Rooney rule, so I can't say yes or no. It is easy to say that clubs don't interview, but actually most of them do. Even Villa, when they hired Lambert, had interviews with other candidates that we weren't supposed to know about. If the Rooney rule will come into effect, I don't know how such interviews are going to be kept a secret, like they are now. Who can control that a black manager has been interviewed, and if a black person is very light skinned or Asian, is (s)he considered black or white? Actually most don't, that some do doesn't mean that most do and even when interviews do occur they are most often done in quiet and in private because they are in work. Open interview processes will never work in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think the issue with this is there's been so few black managers in the last 10 years that there isn't enough to go from club to club and continue being re-appointed season in season out. Most clubs are lazy and will go for someone with experience and who's been at numerous other clubs, think your Warnocks, Pulis who've had a hundred clubs seemingly. Getting sacked from Charlton didn't stop Chris Powell quickly getting another job at Huddersfield, I'm sure Chris Hughton will get another championship job soon enough. I agree it's hard for black managers to get in...but once they do I don't see any discrimination or being denied jobs like white coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Haven't seen any references to this on here, but as Brian Deane is mentioned earlier in this thread, I thought it might be of interest: http://www.nrk.no/sport/fotball/deane-tar-oppgjor-med-rasisme-1.11975632 My rough translation - and I would like to point out that this is a non-native English speaker trying to translate parts of a story written by a Norwegian journalist, not knowing how accurately the journalist has rendered Deane's comments in the first place - of Brian Deane's comments to NRK.no in this article (I guess you all are familiar with Jeffrey Webb's, Mourinho's and Campbell's comments): - The numbers (2 black managers / 92 clubs in the 4 top leagues) are telling. Just granting someone an interview would be a step forward. It's hard to get an interview. It's as simple as that, Deane tells NRK.no. He agrees with Webb that English football has a problem with racism. Deane says that he has experienced this himself several times, both as a player and when he was looking for employment as a manager. - But I tried not to focus on this being a problem. I tried to find a way to move on. It's not easy. Football in itself is not easy. But I thought I had to do something different, otherwise I might ended up sitting twiddling my thumbs, Deane says about the time before he came to Norway. He points out that he has no evidence that the rejections were motivated by racism. But if you consider the number of non-whites actually granted an interview - it is a problem, Deane says. - It wasn't for us Deane scored the first ever goal in the Premier League for Sheffield United in 1992. He had a long career afterwards, playing for (amongst others) Leeds, Benfica, Leicester and West Ham. Deane believes racism in England is firmly rooted in the past. - I don't believe black players were encouraged to become managers. It was almost as it wasn't for us, if you know what I'm saying, Deane says. As an example, he cites a radio interview where a manager described black players as 'strong, fast and athletic'. - That's been around all the time. They do not say that we are capable of being leaders, for example. That's a problem, because many in positions of power in England today still have that attitude, Deane says. But at the same time, the 46-year-old points out that he currently have no involvement with English football. - Looking at the Premier League, they have managers from all over the world. The best managers in the world are in England. I'm primarily talking about the managers in the lower leagues, Deane says. (About Mourinho's comments) - It's important to remember that he got the opportunity because he was an interpreter at Barcelona. If not, he would never be where he is now. Talking about being the best is easy for him, but getting through the door is a problem. A problem he probably never experienced, Deane says. (About the Rooney rule) Deane believes the most important thing is that everyone is treated on equal terms. - I don't believe that you should have particular rights because of the colour of your skin, but I do believe that there should be equal opportunities for everyone, the manager says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Saw today that David James is player - manager of an Indian team, before that he was player - coach in Iceland getting all his badges He really doesn't want to stop playing does he?! 44 and still going, fair play to him I think if he finally hung up his gloves and came back after a managers job he'd have a few who'd consider him, always seemed well respected even of he was hounded by the rags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 8, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 8, 2014 He is chasing cash after being made bankrupt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 'Get rid of Gary Neville and get me in instead,' he said. 'I've done all the badges.' England, in fact, have kept four clean sheets in their last six games, only conceding in the 2-1 defeats by Italy and Uruguay at the World Cup. Neville, meanwhile, already has UEFA A and B coaching licenses. Campbell went on: 'I'm doing my coaching badges with the Welsh FA. I am on the last year of the pro licence. Whether I'm going to use it straightaway I'm not too sure. Whether I can use it here I don't know. 'But the career I have had should warrant me getting a job.' Sol Campbell, the gift that keeps on giving. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2786277/Sack-Gary-Neville-hire-Sol-Campbell-hits-ex-England-team-mate.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2014 I assumed the Neville comment was tongue in cheek until I read the full article in which Sol goes on to claim he was at one time the best defender in the world. I don't seem to remember that period of his career good though he was. He is right, he should be able to get a managers job in English football but the more talking he does the harder its going to get for him because he comes across as being a little nuts to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 'Get rid of Gary Neville and get me in instead,' he said. 'I've done all the badges.' England, in fact, have kept four clean sheets in their last six games, only conceding in the 2-1 defeats by Italy and Uruguay at the World Cup. Neville, meanwhile, already has UEFA A and B coaching licenses. Campbell went on: 'I'm doing my coaching badges with the Welsh FA. I am on the last year of the pro licence. Whether I'm going to use it straightaway I'm not too sure. Whether I can use it here I don't know. 'But the career I have had should warrant me getting a job.' Sol Campbell, the gift that keeps on giving. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2786277/Sack-Gary-Neville-hire-Sol-Campbell-hits-ex-England-team-mate.html Or 'the prick that keeps on talking'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinityRoadSteps Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 'Get rid of Gary Neville and get me in instead,' he said. 'I've done all the badges.' England, in fact, have kept four clean sheets in their last six games, only conceding in the 2-1 defeats by Italy and Uruguay at the World Cup. Neville, meanwhile, already has UEFA A and B coaching licenses. Campbell went on: 'I'm doing my coaching badges with the Welsh FA. I am on the last year of the pro licence. Whether I'm going to use it straightaway I'm not too sure. Whether I can use it here I don't know. 'But the career I have had should warrant me getting a job.' Sol Campbell, the gift that keeps on giving. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2786277/Sack-Gary-Neville-hire-Sol-Campbell-hits-ex-England-team-mate.html Or 'the prick that keeps on talking himself out of getting a job' Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Sol Campbell really is a moron. Hope he **** off to somewhere in Europe and we never hear of him again. On the subject of David James, I know he is chasing the cash but I think he would be a really good manager over here when he finally decides to retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 last year of his pro licence but neville who has completed his pro licence got the england job because of racism and then like others have said you compare how sol is in the rags talking himself out of a job whereas neville is on tv talking himself in to a job his original complaint that the english FA wouldnt put him through his badges so he had to use the welsh FA, he's worth how many millions? he should have put himself through his badges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2014 He really is a monumental tool. No qualifications, no experience and he thinks he can call up the FA and tell them he wants a job and thinks they are racist when they say no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 John Barnes claims he is struggling to get a job in management because he is black. The former Liverpool star’s last managerial job was at Tranmere Rovers in 2009. He lasted four months before being sacked. The 51-year-old has previously been in charge of Celtic and the Jamaica national team. Barnes insisted that, had he been white, he would have got another job. “A white manager loses his job and gets another job, he loses his job, he gets another job. Very few black managers can lose their job and get another job,” he said on John Barnes: Sports Life Stories, to be broadcast on ITV4 on Tuesday. “What I can judge it from is by looking at society. How many black people are there in the higher echelons of any industry? We can talk about journalism, we can talk about politics. So why should football be any different?” Barnes’ first job in management, at Celtic for the 1999-2000 season, ended in the wake of an embarrassing Scottish Cup defeat to Inverness. But he denied that job was too much too soon. “Well, if it comes now at 51, I don’t think it will be any different,” he said. “It’s more to do with the perception of my ability to do the job, because there’s a certain perception of who can make a good manager.” Barnes’ former England team-mate Ian Wright agreed that the colour of his skin was counting against Barnes. The former Arsenal man said: “With someone of John Barnes’ ability and stature, to not have worked more in the game with something that he’s desperate to do. I don’t know what else it can be.” Walked into one of the biggest clubs in the UK, managed a national team, and managed a lower league team. Failed miserably in all of them. What a coward, needs to look at himself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 he makes one valid point but its not about skin colour. How the **** is football management a position you can get another job after so many failures 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I don't like the way he raised the race card after he's failed as a manager. If he was good enough he would get employment irrespective of his colour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I know it sounds like they're just raising the race card, but it is weird how there are so many black players yet so few coaches and managers. I'm struggling to think of a logical reason for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I don't know but I just think in his case he is delusional. In his generation there weren't so many black players around so maybe in 5 or 10 years it will all balance itself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcTheObsession Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 He did well at Jamaica where his record was played 11 won 7 drew 4 lost 0. This landed him the Tranmere job as he wanted a crack at club management, but he failed there, albeit in a very short stint. I'm surprised he hasn't got another job since that ended 6 years ago, at another club Tranmere size in League 1 or 2. I'm not sure if race is the issue though, Hasselbaink and Keith Curle have both landed lower league jobs in the past year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I know it sounds like they're just raising the race card, but it is weird how there are so many black players yet so few coaches and managers. I'm struggling to think of a logical reason for it. true but its losing credibility when a guy who has had jobs and been very shit at it is claiming he cant get a job because of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 He did well at Jamaica where his record was played 11 won 7 drew 4 lost 0. This landed him the Tranmere job as he wanted a crack at club management, but he failed there, albeit in a very short stint. I'm surprised he hasn't got another job since that ended 6 years ago, at another club Tranmere size in League 1 or 2. I'm not sure if race is the issue though, Hasselbaink and Keith Curle have both landed lower league jobs in the past year. Ramsey, Powell and Hughton also got big enough jobs this season as in top 2 divisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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