DCJonah Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 14 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Not at all. The suggestion is that the club signed players that Sherwood didn't want. That quote doesn't support that suggestion. The suggestion was that Sherwood didn't have the final say. You and limpid said the only quotes out there said differently. The quotes posted suggest he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2015 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: The suggestion was that Sherwood didn't have the final say. You and limpid said the only quotes out there said differently. The quotes posted suggest he didn't. Like I said, I think that quote is about finances. Not which players were selected. As limpid said, it carefully sidesteps that and makes it about money. If we take that quote to be about the final say in identifying transfer targets, then it would imply Lerner was deciding the transfer targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I think the quotes imply that Lerner had the final say in how much money was spent and that the comittee decided on the players to sign. Like I say, it seems the posts have moved. It's gone from no other quotes exist to well they don't mean what you think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2015 Just now, DCJonah said: I think the quotes imply that Lerner had the final say in how much money was spent and that the comittee decided on the players to sign. Like I say, it seems the posts have moved. It's gone from no other quotes exist to well they don't mean what you think. Fair enough. Another quote exists, that's a fair point. But I don't think it contradicts the original point about Sherwood not being in favour of all of the signings. No players were forced on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I think a division is being made here that doesn't need to be made. The quote is perfectly consistent with a system in which Almstadt, Reilly, Sherwood and presumably several scouts all made suggestions, and discussed them, and presumably some people got their way on some signings and some people got their way on others, and then a slate of potential signings were put to Lerner who signed off or didn't sign off on them for financial reasons. The direct quotes from Sherwood saying he had the final say on all transfers come from August/September, when he was comfortably in a job and had every incentive not to piss off his employers. The direct quotes suggesting he didn't have the final say are from when he was sacked. Now, of course, he had incentive to deny it then as well, being as how these players have turned out to be complete shit for the most part. My point originally was that he has said different things at different times and there is no reason to presume one is true and the others aren't. Some people seem to just be buying Fox's line wholesale - of course, we can just blame the guy who's already been sacked, no-one else needs to take any blame or responsibility etc. Fine, if you want to, but I don't believe that. Reilly, in particular, was involved in Liverpool's transfer committee during numerous shit, disastrous transfer windows, and is starting to represent the one-eyed sea captain with a suspicious number of wrecks behind him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 43 minutes ago, BOF said: I think bringing in Sherwood did actually save us last season. It was the perfect scenario for Timothy. Probably the only one he'll ever be good at. Fire-fighting. But it's what we needed at the time and it worked. I also think getting rid of him and bringing in Garde was a good thing too. Perhaps it could have been done sooner, but I think it was probably a sensible amount of time given by an employer to an employee considering what had been achieved the previous season and the amount of new players he was dealing with. I think the hiring of Wijeratna and Almstadt were good appointments. It has modernised the club hierarchically. We now look like a fairly decent, well-run club OFF the pitch. But it's someone else's fault that we're not spending the money ON the pitch. I can't agree. While both had to happen i find it hard to praise someone for sacking 2 managers in the space of 8 months. It's not something well run clubs do. If Lambert had gone sooner then we wouldn't have been as desperate and may have got a manager we then didn't need to sack only months later. I can't see how Almstadt is a good appointment, how has he helped us? I'm not sure we do look decent off the pitch. Our sponsorship deals seem nothing special and clearly our recruitment strategy has failed miserably. I'm failing to see what good work there is off the pitch and the positive impact its had. We'll be a championship side next season so I imagine that will ruin any long term plans foxmay have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 It's almost as if the transfer committee missed a step. They saw the way Liverpool and Spurs went about flooding their ranks with promising, foreign talent after selling a player for big money but didn't take into account the fact that both of those teams, without even spending any money post sale, could have easily stayed in the league. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Fair enough. Another quote exists, that's a fair point. But I don't think it contradicts the original point about Sherwood not being in favour of all of the signings. No players were forced on him. I probably wouldn't disagree with this. I don't think Sherwood put his foot down and said 'no way am I signing ayew' and then we just did it. But I think he might have said 'I want Townsend or Lennon' and he was overruled by the committee as they were players not suited for the approach we were taking. In no way am I trying to deflect blame from the poor job Sherwood did, however I do feel he's part of a problem that rebuilt such a terrible squad and not the sole issue. I actually think the committee is the right approach, we've been a mess because we've allowed individual managers to sign whoever they want. But like with most things, we've executed it badly and Tom Fox, who is in charge at the moment, also must take responsibility for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2015 Almstadt is apparently not directly involved in player recruitment at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PieFacE Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Link to an article about the meeting with Tom Fox Quote On Sunday December 13th, representatives of AVST were amongst a selection of supporters invited to meet Villa’s CEO, Tom Fox, at Villa Park. Tom had asked that the meeting be convened in order that he could put the record straight in respect of articles that have appeared in the press over the last few months. In particular, he was keen to explain how our approach to transfers works and to give his side of how the fabled “Transfer Committee” actually operates. As the meeting took place on a matchday, there was limited opportunity for a Q&A session on the back of what Tom shared with us. More on this link - Villa Trust - Tom Fox Meeting New chairman imminent apparently, not looking good for takeover news. Edited December 14, 2015 by blandy extract added 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, sexbelowsound said: It's almost as if the transfer committee missed a step. They saw the way Liverpool and Spurs went about flooding their ranks with promising, foreign talent after selling a player for big money but didn't take into account the fact that both of those teams, without even spending any money post sale, could have easily stayed in the league. This is an excellent point. I think a number of the new lads could potentially play for a mid table side or certainly be part of their squads. They would get time at those clubs though to settle in and be introduced over a season. Here for us to have any chance of surviving they all needed to hit the ground running and make an instant impact and non of them did. We could have perhaps gotten away with two or three signings of that ilk but we spent the vast majority of our money on six players who had showed promise in inferior leagues and threw them in alongside a squad made up predominately of players who had just avoided relegation last season. Edited December 14, 2015 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If players had worked out from the off and we were sat 10th with Tim still here. I can promise you he'd be saying to everyone how they were solely his signings, no such committee would be mentioned. Everything he says is now trying to cover himself. Lying chancer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2015 Well the article with Tom Fox proves that Tim did indeed have the final say on all transfers. Unless Tom is lying which I think is unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yeah, I'd be very surprised if Tom Fox called a group of supporters together and then told a bare faced lie right to their faces. I'm inclined to believe him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 4 hours ago, BOF said: I don't think he has done an awful job at all. He has performed under the massive constraints set down by Lerner. Some might argue that Lambert should have been fired sooner than he was, but that's a moot point considering we didn't go down last season anyway. Regardless of when we changed manager, we stayed up. Despite the opinions on here, I think Sherwood was probably given a sensible amount of time before being gotten rid of too, and I think we have a good man in charge now. I also think the club off the pitch is in much better shape than it was before he arrived. I think Fox has done well. The fact that we look like going down this season is not something you can put on him in my view. It has been a long time in coming. That he's here at a time when we're likely to go down is unfortunate for him, but he's far from the cause of it. Let's not mix up the good things with the bad things at Villa these days, as difficult as it can sometimes be to differentiate the two. For me Fox is still one of the good things at the club. Sorry BOF but do not agree. Sherwood was the biggest mistake the club could have made and we were bloody lucky we survived, in 3-4 years time we will find it ridiculous that he ever managed a huge club. He was given far too much time this season when it was obvious that the guy was out of his depth and for Fox to start slagging Sherwood of now reflects badly on him. I dont know how good or bad Garde will be for us but you have to ask were there better qualified manager around who could have come in and turned us around, It appears in both cases that they were lined up for the job before the previous manager had got the sack so they werent panic appointments and since they are both Fox selections he has to carry the can for them. If we go down no matter what else he has instituted at the club he will have failed the owner, the players and the fans and should resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 22 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yeah, I'd be very surprised if Tom Fox called a group of supporters together and then told a bare faced lie right to their faces. I'm inclined to believe him. I read that as being slightly tongue in cheek until the last line.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Well the new chairman has a hell of a job. Good luck. I can't see it making one bit of difference. I can't see anything being done making any difference because the overall aim of the club will still be the same while Lerner remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 14, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2015 17 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: I read that as being slightly tongue in cheek until the last line.... why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 14, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 14, 2015 25 minutes ago, mykeyb said: Sorry BOF but do not agree. Sherwood was the biggest mistake the club could have made and we were bloody lucky we survived, in 3-4 years time we will find it ridiculous that he ever managed a huge club. He was given far too much time this season when it was obvious that the guy was out of his depth and for Fox to start slagging Sherwood of now reflects badly on him. I dont know how good or bad Garde will be for us but you have to ask were there better qualified manager around who could have come in and turned us around, It appears in both cases that they were lined up for the job before the previous manager had got the sack so they werent panic appointments and since they are both Fox selections he has to carry the can for them. If we go down no matter what else he has instituted at the club he will have failed the owner, the players and the fans and should resign. You say Sherwood was the biggest mistake they could have made. I think being relegated last season would have been worse, so I think it's factually incorrect to say that the club doing something that resulted in us staying up was the biggest mistake they could have made. As for the amount of time he was given this season. We can argue that, but we're only argiuing over a few weeks here or there. Obviously I'd have preferred him gone before he was ultimately fired, but objectively I don't think Fox was unreasonable in giving Sherwood the time that he did. So I think it's certainly unfair to make that any kind of a black mark against him either. As for Garde, yes Fox will 'carry the can' but as you say, we'll see how he does first. I think he'll do well. Asking whether there were better qualified managers around isn't a fair criticism either, unless you have reason to believe that there were, and we still don't know how Garde will do. So it's not only subjective, it's also speculating on the future. Again, all predicated by working under Lerner, I don't think your criticisms are fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If he'd sacked Lambert much earlier we could have appointed someone better than Sherwood, stayed up and not had to replace the manager early into this season. I can't see how he can't be criticised. Sacking 2 managers in 8 months is not the action of a well run club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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