Demitri_C Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I don't know if this belongs here or general thread. But anyone know anything about employment law? Someone I know has been working for 4 years at a property company full time without a contract. She now wants to quit but doesn't know what her rights are. Can she just quit or does she need to give her notice period? She has never once signed a contract or given any literature regarding the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I don't know if this belongs here or general thread. But anyone know anything about employment law? Someone I know has been working for 4 years at a property company full time without a contract. She now wants to quit but doesn't know what her rights are. Can she just quit or does she need to give her notice period? She has never once signed a contract or given any literature regarding the job. Zero rights without a contract AFAIK She can just legally leave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) Going from this site : https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/media-centre/articles-jan-apr-2017/no-written-contract-of-employment/ Quote A large part of your employment contract is dictated by the law in England & Wales. These provide employees with certain rights, such as minimum notice periods, minimum holiday entitlement, limits on how many hours you can work for, and minimum wage. These terms are generally the minimum that you can expect to receive if you have not negotiated an express term in your contract to cover them. They can nearly always be improved upon by agreement with your employer. Another significant implied term in your contract is that of mutual trust and confidence between you and your employer. This term is often the basis of your working relationship with your employer, and if that relationship breaks down, it can result in a serious breach of the contract. Finally, your contract can change naturally over time based on the actual work you do, and how you do it on a day to day basis. This is known as custom and practice, and comes into effect when you have been doing the same process for a long period of time, long enough to show that it has now become part of your contract to continue in that way. How Do I Find Out what My Contract Terms Are? There are obviously difficulties to a contract that has been made verbally. Establishing what the terms are may depend on the recollections you and your employer have, and potentially the recollections of other witnesses, such as your colleagues. The law in England & Wales requires that you are given a ‘statement of certain specified terms’ within two months of starting your job. This statement is not necessarily a contract of employment in itself, and in many cases it’s simply a statement of what has already been agreed orally or in writing. This statement is particularly useful when there is no written contract, as it can form persuasive evidence as to the major terms of your contract. Regardless of all this though, I'd say just upping and leaving without a notice is pretty poor form unless they are shits. One month notice would be normal - and she could always negotiate down if she's still on decent terms with the employers. Is she likely to want a reference from them? Edited November 30, 2018 by Rodders 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Quote Giving notice You must give at least a week’s notice if you’ve been in your job for more than a month. Your contract will tell you whether you need to give notice in writing - otherwise you can do it verbally. Give written notice if you think you’ll need to refer to it later, for example at an employment tribunal. https://www.gov.uk/handing-in-your-notice/giving-notice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 30 minutes ago, Rodders said: Going from this site : https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/media-centre/articles-jan-apr-2017/no-written-contract-of-employment/ Regardless of all this though, I'd say just upping and leaving without a notice is pretty poor form unless they are shits. One month notice would be normal - and she could always negotiate down if she's still on decent terms with the employers. Is she likely to want a reference from them? I would imagine so as she has been there four years. She is being bullied so she wants to quit but isn't sure on the notice period she needs to give if any at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 If there's no contract at all then none of the above is valid right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: If there's no contract at all then none of the above is valid right? Statutory obligations (1 week minimum) will apply, contract or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Statutory obligations (1 week minimum) will apply, contract or not. That was my impression but I was not 100%. I really don't get how you can have employees for 4 years and not have any sort of contract. How do you know your pay? Your annual leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted November 30, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I would imagine so as she has been there four years. She is being bullied so she wants to quit but isn't sure on the notice period she needs to give if any at all. Sounds like the perfect scenario for a letter of resignation closely followed by a doctors note, signing off for a week with stress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, choffer said: Sounds like the perfect scenario for a letter of resignation closely followed by a doctors note, signing off for a week with stress. I suggested that but I guess that would effect her reference annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted November 30, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I suggested that but I guess that would effect her reference annoying Most organisations don't give personal references these days. Pretty much all you ever get is "I can confirm that xxxxx worked between x and y dates in a role of xxxxx at a salary of £xxx" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) HR reference is fine and in terms of working a notice period, always best to do what is in your interests. Edited November 30, 2018 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Went for a Team leader role last week in a slightly different department. I have been doing so much extra the last 18 months, including covering 4 different team leaders at different times. My department manager recommended me for it, as did other team leaders. Had the results this week and didn’t get it. Feedback was that I interviewed well, and hit all the benchmarks required. It still went to someone else. The person who has got it is one of those that moves roles a lot and never sticks to anything long term. So pissed off at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Went for a Team leader role last week in a slightly different department. I have been doing so much extra the last 18 months, including covering 4 different team leaders at different times. My department manager recommended me for it, as did other team leaders. Had the results this week and didn’t get it. Feedback was that I interviewed well, and hit all the benchmarks required. It still went to someone else. The person who has got it is one of those that moves roles a lot and never sticks to anything long term. So pissed off at the moment. That sucks. I see this to often happening in nhs. I don't blame you for being angry. Might be worth thinking about jumping ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 11 hours ago, Demitri_C said: That sucks. I see this to often happening in nhs. I don't blame you for being angry. Might be worth thinking about jumping ship. It’s normally a really good company to work for. Plus I’ve recently been selected to be on a leadership programme. Just hope something comes up soon about another leadership role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeyC_UTV Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 15 hours ago, mikeyp102 said: Went for a Team leader role last week in a slightly different department. I have been doing so much extra the last 18 months, including covering 4 different team leaders at different times. My department manager recommended me for it, as did other team leaders. Had the results this week and didn’t get it. Feedback was that I interviewed well, and hit all the benchmarks required. It still went to someone else. The person who has got it is one of those that moves roles a lot and never sticks to anything long term. So pissed off at the moment. I work in local gov’t and echo what @Demitri_C has observed, way too many times appointments are made on personal relationships rather than performance/capability/competency etc. In theory applying for stuff (above current role/different/ ‘advanced’ role in same/similar organisation) shows ambition/drive and all that, will eventually be noticed (well thats what we are expeted to believe) But best of luck fella in future endeavours 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PieFacE Posted December 7, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) On 03/08/2018 at 13:04, PieFacE said: So has anyone has a complete change of career before and it's gone well? I've been working at the same company for 12/13 years now. It's all very easy going and i'm completely in my comfort zone. A job offer has come my way with a total shift in career but it's a career I think I'd find quite rewarding and in an emerging market which leaves plenty of room for growth. Only issue is, as it's a total different career choice I guess i'm scared it won't work out, and I would have left a really easy going job. Interviews have taken place and I think they have gone well. Anyone got any success stories from a similar situation? So, 4 months ago I posted that ^ In that time I interviewed for the job even though I wasn't sure about it, got the job, had to give 3 months notice and today is my last day! Absolutely hugely excited to be working in an industry that truly fascinates me and have absolutely no regrets about leaving after I got the courage to do so. Moral of the story... Edited December 7, 2018 by PieFacE 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos_the_third Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Having a bit of a dilemma around my career... Been on a grad scheme for just over two years, mainly working with data. However, the last three months I have been working in a more policy focused role, and have been enjoying the role type, but haven’t really been stretched too much in the role itself (partly due to commuting between London and Birmingham every other day, which is exhausting!). I get rotated at the end of February, which means I will have to move to a new data role for six months, which isn’t overly appealing. Spoke to the head of my current team yesterday, who strongly suggested she’d be prepared to offer me a permanent policy position. I wouldn’t want to take my current job on permanently, so would have to try and swing a promotion out of this opportunity if I were to go for it (not sure how realistic this is). I am enjoying the area I currently work on, but do think there are other areas that may be more interesting to work on - however, without much policy experience it’d be hard for me to get a job on promotion in one of these areas, and I’d have to move back to London on a salary lower than I’d like. To throw into the mix, I have considered dropping everything and going travelling for six months - I’ve never done anything like that, and might like to at some point. Now in theory is a good time whilst not having any commitments, but my mental health has been a bit ropey the last year or so, and being alone for six months without structure may not be the best idea right now. Also, I don’t really like the idea of not having a job to fall back on if I were to go travelling... Anyone got any similar experiences to any of this, or any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted December 7, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Carlos_the_third said: Anyone got any similar experiences to any of this, or any advice? Does the organisation offer a sabbatical option? If so, take the job on offer for a couple of years then you can afford a 6 month sabbatical and still have a job to go back to. Very popular choice at my current employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos_the_third Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 3 hours ago, choffer said: Does the organisation offer a sabbatical option? If so, take the job on offer for a couple of years then you can afford a 6 month sabbatical and still have a job to go back to. Very popular choice at my current employer. I have known people taking career breaks, so that may very well be an option. Sounds like a good one as well, so I will look into it more! Thanks for the advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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