What do you drive?

[chrisp65]

10 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

Back to the world of boring cars...

...anyone had any experience with hybrids in general ? 

I've been looking for a while and it's been 'interesting' trying to get information and test drives on hybrids. I was interested in the Golf GTE but there wasn't a dealership anywhere local could be bothered to get me a test drive. Similar happened at Toyota, where they had a Prius in the showroom but apparently that wasn't a 'demonstrator' but they thought they could find something for me to drive in September. 

Anyway, after a solid 10 year relationship with me old

I finally traded it in today and drove home in a 

much too early to say too much really, other than the old C Class could do the commute journey home at between 18 to 26 mpg depending on the amount of congestion.

I've just done the same old 12 mile commute route home without the petrol engine kicking in. Now, it's early days, and I was driving really really delicately watching the little battery power graphic. But I reckon on a single journey home, I just saved about £3 or £4. If that's anywhere near true, the fuel saving will pay for the car.

Loved me old Merc, 265,000 miles though. That'll do pig.

[Dom_Wren]

On 8/4/2017 at 15:59, Risso said:

Quick pic of the engine and the cockpit. It's amazing fun to drive, stupidly fast in a straight line but agile and very sure footed. 

Man. That is absolutely amazing! Couldn't even imagine the rush of driving that beast. 

[choffer]

On 07/08/2017 at 20:37, chrisp65 said:

much too early to say too much really, other than the old C Class could do the commute journey home at between 18 to 26 mpg depending on the amount of congestion.

Very interested to hear what you think, given the miles you seem to do. Been thinking about a hybrid for a while now so it would be good to know how you get on with it once you've a few miles under your belt. 

[tonyh29]

On ‎07‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 20:37, chrisp65 said:

I've been looking for a while and it's been 'interesting' trying to get information and test drives on hybrids. I was interested in the Golf GTE but there wasn't a dealership anywhere local could be bothered to get me a test drive. Similar happened at Toyota, where they had a Prius in the showroom but apparently that wasn't a 'demonstrator' but they thought they could find something for me to drive in September. 

Anyway, after a solid 10 year relationship with me old

I finally traded it in today and drove home in a 

much too early to say too much really, other than the old C Class could do the commute journey home at between 18 to 26 mpg depending on the amount of congestion.

I've just done the same old 12 mile commute route home without the petrol engine kicking in. Now, it's early days, and I was driving really really delicately watching the little battery power graphic. But I reckon on a single journey home, I just saved about £3 or £4. If that's anywhere near true, the fuel saving will pay for the car.

Loved me old Merc, 265,000 miles though. That'll do pig.

it was Sunday when I went to the dealer , told them I was  a serious cash buyer , ready to purchase , but that I really didn't want to buy one blind and could they see if there was anything they could setup and left all my details   , it's now Wednesday and not a squeak out of them , I'd kind of expected a phone call , if nothing else to say we are still looking or Sorry it can't be done but can we tempt you anyway  .. doesn't seem to be any hunger from car salespeople , I thought they earn't a commission and would be keen to try and get a deal ?

 

looks like my options are buy it blind ..or buy something else and take the tax hit

[choffer]

26 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

it was Sunday when I went to the dealer , told them I was  a serious cash buyer , ready to purchase , but that I really didn't want to buy one blind and could they see if there was anything they could setup and left all my details   , it's now Wednesday and not a squeak out of them , I'd kind of expected a phone call , if nothing else to say we are still looking or Sorry it can't be done but can we tempt you anyway  .. doesn't seem to be any hunger from car salespeople , I thought they earn't a commission and would be keen to try and get a deal ?

 

looks like my options are buy it blind ..or buy something else and take the tax hit

Too early in the quarter?

[jim]

12 minutes ago, choffer said:

Too early in the quarter?

Cash buyer more likely. The days when cash is king are long gone. 

Most dealers are only interested in signing you  to a lucrative PCP deal.

[TheMelvillan]

Dunno what car he drives but Ian Taylor just tweeted a picture from inside his motor and it had a touchscreen bigger than my telly. Crazy!

[choffer]

22 minutes ago, TheMelvillan said:

Dunno what car he drives but Ian Taylor just tweeted a picture from inside his motor and it had a touchscreen bigger than my telly. Crazy!

He's an ex-footballer that hasn't fallen on hard times. Almost guaranteed to be a baby Bentley or a Land Rover.

[wazzap24]

2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

it was Sunday when I went to the dealer , told them I was  a serious cash buyer , ready to purchase , but that I really didn't want to buy one blind and could they see if there was anything they could setup and left all my details   , it's now Wednesday and not a squeak out of them , I'd kind of expected a phone call , if nothing else to say we are still looking or Sorry it can't be done but can we tempt you anyway  .. doesn't seem to be any hunger from car salespeople , I thought they earn't a commission and would be keen to try and get a deal ?

 

looks like my options are buy it blind ..or buy something else and take the tax hit

What situation are you in here Tony? You mentioned tax, so I assumed company car, but now you're talking cash buyer? 

Do you run your own shop and are thinking of buying one through your business? 

If you are, don't. 

I work in the industry and am currently involved in a project on alternative fuel tech vehicles. My one piece of advice above anything else is, do not buy one outright, or on HP, or PCP. Basically do not fund one in any way where you carry the residual risk, unless you don't care about the £££ and are happy to potentially lose a load. 

The recent announcement from the government is a game changer. Forget the fact it's 20 years away, the industry is moving now. If what I've heard about the tech is right, the hybrids and electric vehicles available now, are going to look like the original mobile phone from the 80's Vs an iPhone in less than 3 years. 

Sit tight, lease something for a couple of years if needed. Honestly, things are going to start changing rapidly and residual values of all vehicles are going to start taking hits in the short term. 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by wazzap24

[tonyh29]

Just now, wazzap24 said:

What situation are you in here Tony? You mentioned tax, so I assumed company car, but now you're taking cash buyer? 

Do you run your own shop and are thinking of buying one through your business? 

If you are, don't. 

I work in the industry and am currently involved in a project on alternative fuel tech vehicles. My one piece of advice above anything else is, do not buy one outright, or on HP, or PCP. Basically do not fund one in anyway where you carry the residual risk, unless you don't care about the £££ and are happy to potentially lose a load. 

The recent announcement from the government is a game changer. Forget the fact it's 20 years away, the industry is moving now. If what I've heard about the tech is right, the hybrids and electric vehicles available now, are going to look like the original mobile phone from the 80's Vs an iPhone in less than 3 years. 

Sit tight, lease something for a couple of years if needed. Honestly, things are going to start changing rapidly and residual values of all vehicles are going to start taking hits in the short term. 

 

 

it's our own company so we buy them outright as there are a few clever things the accountant can do with regards to the asset ... ... appreciate we still pay a fair whack , but PCP etc seems a bad idea when they want to charge 5% interest whilst we have cash in the bank earning next to nothing in the way of interest

but I can come out the company car scheme and take an allowance instead and get my own car but I'd have to fund the deposit , pay the £xx a month , pay the insurance etc

seems a bit pointless if I can drive away in a 50k car and pay £150 a month in tax , which is all the 5 series hybrid would cost me  ... ok the cost of the car goes to the company and also impacts me a little indirectly as well but even so ....

but you raise a good point so maybe I need to think about it a bit more ....

[jackbauer24]

Not sure if it's the same with company cars but I was told, as a private buyer, that if you've got cash these days you DON'T tell the dealer. What you do is get them to work their arses off getting you great discounts etc on finance which you sign up for.... then cancel within the 14 days and pay in cash.

But personally I'm fully sold on the lease method now, can't see many positives to ownership especially for newer cars.

[wazzap24]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

it's our own company so we buy them outright as there are a few clever things the accountant can do with regards to the asset ... ... appreciate we still pay a fair whack , but PCP etc seems a bad idea when they want to charge 5% interest whilst we have cash in the bank earning next to nothing in the way of interest

but I can come out the company car scheme and take an allowance instead and get my own car but I'd have to fund the deposit , pay the £xx a month , pay the insurance etc

seems a bit pointless if I can drive away in a 50k car and pay £150 a month in tax , which is all the 5 series hybrid would cost me  ... ok the cost of the car goes to the company and also impacts me a little indirectly as well but even so ....

but you raise a good point so maybe I need to think about it a bit more ....

Got ya. 

You get the benefit of the writing down allowances, which is a decent offset, but they are still a depreciating asset sat on the balance sheet.....

The quality of EV's/Hybrids will rocket over the next 3-5 years and the costs will do the opposite. 

2020/2021 is the current predicted tipping point for the cost of production (as in, an EV will cost less to produce than a combustion powered vehicle by this point) 

Tesla have just cracked over 600 miles on one charge with their new battery tech. Battery tech in general is improving at around 25-30% year on year. Material and production costs are falling. 

The traditional manufacturers have been playing at it, expecting the status quo to remain. They are being forced to ramp up now and you'll start to see what happens when they realise its do or die. 

The only things holding back rapid changes are infrastructure (these costs are starting to fall now too), legislation and protectionism. 

 

[wazzap24]

2 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

Not sure if it's the same with company cars but I was told, as a private buyer, that if you've got cash these days you DON'T tell the dealer. What you do is get them to work their arses off getting you great discounts etc on finance which you sign up for.... then cancel within the 14 days and pay in cash.

But personally I'm fully sold on the lease method now, can't see many positives to ownership especially for newer cars.

It can work, but Dealers cannot give anywhere near the same level and of discounts via retail as they do via the leasing companies. Even a company of a reasonable size, who can negotiate terms directly with a manufacturer can't touch them most of the time. 

Spoke to a punter earlier, wittering on about how he'd negotiated a 10% discount on a couple of cars via a main dealer. My firm buys the same cars at 25% and I could lease him one for £100 less than the HP payments, over a term that was 2 years shorter. I was only half smiling at the sound of despair coming back down the line.

They make their money from retail customers/small business' thinking they are getting a great deal. 

[Xela]

1 hour ago, wazzap24 said:

.Spoke to a punter earlier, wittering on about how he'd negotiated a 10% discount on a couple of cars via a main dealer. My firm buys the same cars at 25% and I could lease him one for £100 less than the HP payments, over a term that was 2 years shorter. I was only half smiling at the sound of despair coming back down the line.

[wazzap24]

4 minutes ago, Xela said:

If only my patter was that smooth 

[chrisp65]

I'd have to say @wazzap24 that's kind of comforting to hear about the lease and all.

My amateur thinking on it was that I didn't really know how things are going with tax, with access to city centres, how long the battery would really last, or who would find there's some new killer pollutant sneaking out the back end. So I decided it was best not to own it, just lease it. As it happened, it was also the cheapest deal, so win win.

Once I did that, once I didn't psychologically need to own it, it didn't matter what the purchase date was, didn't matter if it was a 17 plate or a 67, no waiting 4 weeks for the next reg plate and hardest negotiating time.

Then there was the attitude of dealers, that drove me on to the web based lease companies like Go Green Leasing. From there, I worked out some dealers double up as nationwide lease companies. So my car was sourced via a web enquiry, the company bumped me to a Hyundai dealership somewhere up by Doncaster. It was them that found a car they shipped to Cardiff - but registered it in Newport to get someone's sales figures over the line. Just doing it directly through a local dealer was going to cost me an extra £50 a month for three years. 

Yet I picked it up from my most local store.

And in three years time the residual value is of no concern to me and hopefully there will be some similar car but doing 100 mpg and I won't be trying to offload yesterday's technology.

We'll see...

@tonyh29 - first question a few salesmen asked me was 'are you ready to buy?' But the answer, 'yes, I can buy right now today, but I don't need to so I can also wait a few months for a better deal'. Well, that appeared to throw a few of them. 

@choffer - I'll keep you posted, still haven't hit the new car blues yet! 

[darrenm]

I've just changed from my Toyota hybrid to a VAG non hybrid. It's the opposite way to what most others are going and there are some massive things I miss from my old hybrid.

Mainly, the smoothness of the hybrid. Stop-start technology is utterly shit. It's inconsistent and difficult to predict with DSG. 

And the MPG. All that crap started by Clarkson etc about hybrids not having good MPG and I used to get 65 MPG and I now get 40 with the 1.4 ecotsi engine with act cylinder shutoff.

This lease is only for 2 years and is just a stop gap until the hybrid market is better for my needs. But right now, even though I'm driving the SUV of the year in the SEAT Ateca and it's the top model, I wished I'd leased a Prius instead.

[Genie]

You can buy 15-20 year old diesels that'll do 55-60mpg no problem at all. If you want cheap motoring then no need for a hybrid.

[Midfielder]

Can I just "rep" the Uk pickup driver at this  point. My pickup gets decent MPG and Is tax about 180 200 can't remember not everyone's cup of tea but workhorse, reliable, occqsi Bally something need doing but all ok. Just the regular

ok doesn't suit all on here but not as bad as an option as you might think. Even as an urban tractor is safe as hell for your kiddies and wife and weeeekebds away. Mine is 1O years old but nice fronthe money these days. Superb machines. Credit MitsubishiL200!in particular In particular but also Nissan Navarro and ford RAnger personally down with then L200s. 

But for those on here considering work / family vehicle Mitsubishi L200 all the way. Just my recommend ation.  Shat myself recently about big job needing doubt turned out much cheaper than thought.  

Min is basic. But otherwise is easy to park and maintain. Just saying , pickups nice economical option I know that sounds daft but in some cases very viable option. No, I'm not a Mitsubishi fanboy but worthy of consideration. Some nice kit as standar on series 5s and above parking cameras blah blah etc.  Anyway.  

Edit and for the record my daily commute is 50-100 miles minimum and that's for a bag o'shut pickup never mind a new one  and I would not want nowt else right now  although to be fair my commute is 50\60mph roads but even so I am telling you I stick a twenty £ diesel in and it goes a long way  just saying 

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Midfielder

[darrenm]

4 hours ago, Genie said:

You can buy 15-20 year old diesels that'll do 55-60mpg no problem at all. If you want cheap motoring then no need for a hybrid.

And will kill 1 child per mile with asthma, lung cancer, heart disease etc. 

The MPG isn't really the big deal with hybrids, it's the environmental and health impact. A hybrid will emit no NOx, and almost no co2. Old diesels are incredibly bad for emissions and need to be taken off the road as soon as possible.