World Cup 2022: Qatar

[Thug]

35 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

So you don't even accept that this world cup was more expensive for travelling fans than previous world cups?

Or less accessible?

Because if that's the case its not worth discussing any more

This amazingly successful world cup... With empty seats at every game because no one went...

Woah!

When did I not accept that this wasn’t an expensive World Cup?  Of course it was.  That’s irrefutable fact.  Ticket prices were 50% higher than they were in even in Russia.

What I’m saying is that you say it became inaccessible to the ‘vast majority of the world population’ on THIS occasion - it was already inaccessible to the ‘vast majority’ of the worlds population back in Russia.

maybe it became inaccessible to an even greater percentage- but prob 80% of the world population already couldn’t dream of reaching a World Cup game even if it was in their own home  town!

Lets not pretend the ‘vast majority’ got priced out only now - which is what you implied.

 

[Rds1983]

This thread is weird.

[bobzy]

15 hours ago, Thug said:

That’s the way the law makes you feel.

Which is a horrible way for anyone to be made to feel, and is wrong.

But it is NOT illegal for you to ‘exist’.

You would be breaking the law if you had sexual relations with another man. So you could ‘exist’ and not have sex.

I am NOT saying that that is ok before you jump down my throat.  I’m just saying it’s NOT illegal to exist.

Im not arguing AGAINST gay rights, I don’t understand why you guys just don’t get it.

I don’t understand why you’re choosing this particular hill. It’s **** up.

It isn’t just about sexual activity in a same-sex relationship, it’s having a same-sex relationship at all. You cannot live together. You cannot marry. You cannot display public signs of affection. Any of this is punishable by a lengthy prison stretch or even death(!) (though apparently this never really happens).

I mean, you can “exist” by pretending to be something you aren’t… which isn’t really existing, to me. 

[Thug]

45 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don’t understand why you’re choosing this particular hill. It’s **** up.

It isn’t just about sexual activity in a same-sex relationship, it’s having a same-sex relationship at all. You cannot live together. You cannot marry. You cannot display public signs of affection. Any of this is punishable by a lengthy prison stretch or even death(!) (though apparently this never really happens).

I mean, you can “exist” by pretending to be something you aren’t… which isn’t really existing, to me. 

Yes. You’re right.

But it still isn’t illegal for you to exist.

What you describe is bad enough, and is so much more powerful than clichéd hyperbole

There is no need to exaggerate it.  
 

You STILL don’t understand the hill I’m on.  I’m not trying to defend the Qataris stance on homosexuality. This whole debate started after I asked why the states were not being criticised in the same way. 

For the UPTEENTH time:

IF YOU ARE GOING TO CRITICISE THE AWARDING OF THE WORLD CUP TO QATAR BASED ON A **** UP LAW, BUT ARE QUITE HAPPY TO ACCEPT THE NEXT WORLD CUP IN AMERICA WHERE THEIR LAW ALLOWS LEGAL PAEDOPHILIA, THEN THE ONLY EXPLANATION IS THAT YOU ARE PREJUDICED.

That’s my hill.

Thats the point where I started.  But I get accused of ‘whataboutism’ and you conveniently don’t answer my question by ‘bowing out’ because I have a very ‘odd hill to die on’.
 

 

So let me ask YOU, @bobzy, directly.

Do you have a problem with the United States co-hosting the next World Cup?

[LondonLax]

12 hours ago, villa4europe said:

So you don't even accept that this world cup was more expensive for travelling fans than previous world cups?

Or less accessible?

Because if that's the case its not worth discussing any more

This amazingly successful world cup... With empty seats at every game because no one went...

I guess that depends where the travelling fans are travelling from doesn’t it? It was probably cheaper for travelling fans from the Middle East? 

[villa4europe]

27 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

I guess that depends where the travelling fans are travelling from doesn’t it? It was probably cheaper for travelling fans from the Middle East? 

In terms of tickets, hotels, food and drink? No it's been crazy expensive hasn't it?

It was a world cup for the elite, everything about this world cup to me just screamed money

Even in the final the cameras kept turning to the 98 team sat in the posh seats and it pissed me off, they're paid to be there on the corporate ticket, that was qatar

[GlobalVillan]

19 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

In terms of tickets, hotels, food and drink? No it's been crazy expensive hasn't it?

It was a world cup for the elite, everything about this world cup to me just screamed money

Even in the final the cameras kept turning to the 98 team sat in the posh seats and it pissed me off, they're paid to be there on the corporate ticket, that was qatar

I went to the world cup in Qatar. It was great, although very expensive.

The empty seats were caused by friends and relatives of locals buying match tickets that they didn't need, in order to get a Hayaa Card to enter the country. That meant loads of tickets were bought by people that didn't have any interest in going to a game, as it was the ONLY way to enter the country.

Alcohol was available all over the country too, just not at the stadiums.

[villa4europe]

5 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said:

I went to the world cup in Qatar. It was great, although very expensive.

The empty seats were caused by friends and relatives of locals buying match tickets that they didn't need, in order to get a Hayaa Card to enter the country. That meant loads of tickets were bought by people that didn't have any interest in going to a game, as it was the ONLY way to enter the country.

Alcohol was available all over the country too, just not at the stadiums.

Yeah they needed a system that could control it because they were too small a nation to handle that kind of influx of visitors and then people abused that system

But a perfectly suitable host

[GlobalVillan]

18 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Yeah they needed a system that could control it because they were too small a nation to handle that kind of influx of visitors and then people abused that system

But a perfectly suitable host

Certainly wasn't "perfectly suitable" but they did a very good job as hosts at the end of it all.

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, GlobalVillan said:

Certainly wasn't "perfectly suitable" but they did a very good job as hosts at the end of it all.

Yeah they were OK, believe it or not I've got no massive problem with Qatar, my problem is with fifa, both in terms of how they sold it to them and now how infantino is trying to market it as the best world cup ever, it was alright

It was weird that's for sure but every world cup seems to be weird for me now as I seem to be changing jobs (and country) and I find myself under different rules and places watching it, enjoyed the first week as I had time off and watched every game, was working for the end of it and found myself not caring that I was missing games

Wait till they stick thr LA / West Coast / Mexico games on at 1am for the next world cup and if shifts again... I'd love an oz WC on paper until the reality kicks in and it doesn't work for me personally rendering it shite

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

On 25/12/2022 at 03:56, Thug said:

Quite a few of my friends attended.  They’re not rich.

I suppose ‘rich’ is a relative term though.

From the corruption point of view I agree.

It horrible to think that EVERYTHING is for sale. 
 

But out of interest, who do you think should have got it?

Bidders:

Australia

Japan

South Korea

USA

Qatar

Mate me and all the loaded people I hosted ranging from Mexican high school students to other regional dictators had a torrid time.

Between hunting the gays, the scantily clad and blasphemers we barely had time to concentrate on executing the sodemites ( or football for that matter ) in the empty seats. ( Decapitated heads were often rushed to empty seats to fill in for TV of course because this wasn't a good look )

There was a point where I was so bored I decided it would be best to oppress a few females who's niqabs had slipped off and were showing shoulder and fringe hairs like whores. ( This was obvuously after I remembered they weren't allowed outside )

We had to chuck a few migrant workers over the edge of Al Bayt as they decided to speak their truths. " Harry Kane is shit and Grealish is gay " one said ... Lines have to be drawn somewhere.

Me and the rest of my gang went on a mission where we collected Bisht Capes and just started chucking them on infidels because that's one of the best ways to express national pride.

At the end of the night, I met up with Infantino and plotted our next evil scheme... Which was an Afghanistan/North Korea dual Cup " for the culture " of course. I was pushing for Congo/Somalia but they weren't having it.

I genuinely think some of you clearings in the woods underestimate just how thick you sound to people outside of your echo chamber.  Jesus Christ.

Edited December 26, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

20 hours ago, villa4europe said:

So you don't even accept that this world cup was more expensive for travelling fans than previous world cups?

Or less accessible?

Because if that's the case its not worth discussing any more

This amazingly successful world cup... With empty seats at every game because no one went...

Indeed... The next World Cup to be spread out between three continents, as opposed to one City where you could literally get to every stadium inside 20 - 30 minutes or less is the epitome of accessibility.

FYI... Whilst we are on the subject of accessibility, ask disabled fans about their general accessibility experience at football matches... Then ask them about their accessibility experience in Qatar at stadiums. 

The Middle East is generally 5 - 8 hours flight wise from Europe, North America is similar.. and in most case an even further distance for the average fan, this makes no **** sense.

Common sense will tell you that... Wherever a World Cup is in the world... The higher the likelihood is that more people from within whichever region it is being held in will attend, aside from the likes of South American fans who will follow their teams to Mars.

It's the WORLD CUP... Not the English, European or White people cup, f#cking deal with it. EVERY region deserves a shot at it, at least!

Weren't you lot trying to dismantle South Africa before it happened as well? Everyone was meant to be getting raped and murdered ffs

Russia was meant to be another cold war but the biggest trouble makers were actually ENGLISH Hooligan's.

Give over ffs 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

14 hours ago, Thug said:

Yes. You’re right.

But it still isn’t illegal for you to exist.

What you describe is bad enough, and is so much more powerful than clichéd hyperbole

There is no need to exaggerate it.  
 

You STILL don’t understand the hill I’m on.  I’m not trying to defend the Qataris stance on homosexuality. This whole debate started after I asked why the states were not being criticised in the same way. 

For the UPTEENTH time:

IF YOU ARE GOING TO CRITICISE THE AWARDING OF THE WORLD CUP TO QATAR BASED ON A **** UP LAW, BUT ARE QUITE HAPPY TO ACCEPT THE NEXT WORLD CUP IN AMERICA WHERE THEIR LAW ALLOWS LEGAL PAEDOPHILIA, THEN THE ONLY EXPLANATION IS THAT YOU ARE PREJUDICED.

That’s my hill.

Thats the point where I started.  But I get accused of ‘whataboutism’ and you conveniently don’t answer my question by ‘bowing out’ because I have a very ‘odd hill to die on’.
 

 

So let me ask YOU, @bobzy, directly.

Do you have a problem with the United States co-hosting the next World Cup?

Excuse me sir, they are NOT pedophiles. They are Minor attracted persons! Now go in the corner and think about how your dead naming, misgendering and total disrespect for pronoun aggregation affects THEY like Sam Smith ( That new song Bodyshop is fire to be fair )

I'm getting banned soon ain't I?.

I just hope as a board, and as a society in general, eventually some realise that people are genuinely " sick of your shit ".

" Live and let live " shouldn't only apply to one set of humans ffs, it should be Universal. The conflict comes from the blatant hypocrisy!

Edited December 26, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[blandy]

22 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Russia was meant to be another cold war but the biggest trouble makers were actually ENGLISH Hooligan's.

Give over ffs 

In between the angry cross posting there’s been some interesting perspectives posted. 
Anyway, FWIW I agree there’s been an awful lot of of national “norms”, media hyperbole and just different cultural standards all whirled into a bit of an angry mix. For example, @Thug and @JAMAICAN-VILLANare quite right to point out the hypocrisy of western media outlets to Qatari society’s laws, while making no mention of western failings. But wrong, IMO, to place that on to posters. If you look in other threads you can see that posters have criticised the US or UK, or whoever for bad stuff done by them. But in this thread about the Qatar WC, it’s absolutely spot on to comment about Qatar’s laws and treatment of LBGT people or migrant workers. Just because someone posted condemnation of one thing doesn’t mean that because someone hasn’t heard them condemn another thing, that they condone it. They don’t. Or at least in my experience people who are against (say) Qatari treatment of immigrants are equally angry about British (say) treatment of refugees or immigrants.  It’s not mandatory to preface adverse comment about Qatar with adverse comment about every other injustice in the world. The comment has value as a stand alone comment, regardless of other issues elsewhere.

Qatar seems like it’s trying to develop at a pace that is far faster than most nations. They can do that because of the oil wealth. But that brings questions that maybe don’t apply to other places, as their advances are not all at the same pace. Stadia or airports or hotels can be built quickly. Societal attitudes and stuff take much longer to change.

Whether the WC has speeded up that process, or recalibrated it is unclear. Lessons from awarding it to Russia point one (bad) way, but Qatar isn’t Russia. People aren’t governments.

[Thug]

On 26/12/2022 at 04:46, blandy said:

In between the angry cross posting there’s been some interesting perspectives posted. 
Anyway, FWIW I agree there’s been an awful lot of of national “norms”, media hyperbole and just different cultural standards all whirled into a bit of an angry mix. For example, @Thug and @JAMAICAN-VILLANare quite right to point out the hypocrisy of western media outlets to Qatari society’s laws, while making no mention of western failings. But wrong, IMO, to place that on to posters. If you look in other threads you can see that posters have criticised the US or UK, or whoever for bad stuff done by them. But in this thread about the Qatar WC, it’s absolutely spot on to comment about Qatar’s laws and treatment of LBGT people or migrant workers. Just because someone posted condemnation of one thing doesn’t mean that because someone hasn’t heard them condemn another thing, that they condone it. They don’t. Or at least in my experience people who are against (say) Qatari treatment of immigrants are equally angry about British (say) treatment of refugees or immigrants.  It’s not mandatory to preface adverse comment about Qatar with adverse comment about every other injustice in the world. The comment has value as a stand alone comment, regardless of other issues elsewhere.

Qatar seems like it’s trying to develop at a pace that is far faster than most nations. They can do that because of the oil wealth. But that brings questions that maybe don’t apply to other places, as their advances are not all at the same pace. Stadia or airports or hotels can be built quickly. Societal attitudes and stuff take much longer to change.

Whether the WC has speeded up that process, or recalibrated it is unclear. Lessons from awarding it to Russia point one (bad) way, but Qatar isn’t Russia. People aren’t governments.

Absolutely right.

 

And equally, if you’re going to post prejudiced views in the Qatar WC thread, expect them to be challenged.

 

Although one point I would dispute is that you can’t take for granted that some posters have ever criticised the UK or US over their policies, and even if they do - they would always stop short of putting sanctions on them.  [edit]

Edited December 28, 2022 by Thug
Not interested in starting a pointy finger war.

[El Zen]

5 minutes ago, Thug said:

A quick search on previous posts tells you a lot about certain posters and the kinds of bigoted views they might hold.

Please, enlighten us as to where on VT we might find this bigotry from ‘certain posters’.

[Thug]

3 hours ago, El Zen said:

Please, enlighten us as to where on VT we might find this bigotry from ‘certain posters’.

You bowed out buddy.

[fruitvilla]

1 hour ago, Thug said:

You bowed out buddy.

I thought it was a fair question. I am curious.

[Thug]

1 hour ago, fruitvilla said:

I thought it was a fair question. I am curious.

Yh, well, funny that.

When I was interested on your thoughts about whether the Americans should be allowed to host the next World Cup because of their **** up child marriage laws… you guys were ‘bowing out.‘ leaving me to die on some **** up hill.

Not interested in starting it all up again or pointing fingers at individuals. So I’ll just edit my post, and leave it at that.  
 

my turn to bow out of this conversation.

 

 

[sne]

They are turning the hotel room Messi stayed at into a museum according to this Moroccan journalist. I mean sure, why not.