The Captaincy

[Zatman]

Just now, smokingzen said:

Good will from who?

Personally I don't think Mings should be on the pitch never mind given the captaincy back. 

We have a team that over the last couple of years has had a weak mind set and a tendency to give away needless cheap goals and then capitulate in games, much of that has stemmed from Mings.

I think if Carlos hadn't been injured we'd be in a different position now, and would make a good shout for captain.

If Carlos was fit Mings would still be playing. Would you rather we start Konsa/Bednarek or Konsa/Chambers going forward

I think its not zen your smoking

[smokingzen]

19 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Best thing the new manager can do is not make such a big deal about it publicly like the last chump did. Just come in to training, say “John, I’m making so and so captain. Nothing personal, thank you for being the captain previously and I hope we all can move forward with this”. Done. 

The only chumps making a big deal of it were the press and some fans... and guess what, if we change captain again, the same will probably happen. 

[smokingzen]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

If Carlos was fit Mings would still be playing. Would you rather we start Konsa/Bednarek or Konsa/Chambers going forward

I think its not zen your smoking

That's just supposition on your part in both cases.

TBH I rather start anyone over Mings, it's been shown time and time again, even across Smith's time here, that for all of his good play he's always got a relatively unforced game losing mistake in him. If you added up all the points he's lost us over the last few seasons, we'd probably have been top half.

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, smokingzen said:

That's just supposition on your part in both cases.

TBH I rather start anyone over Mings, it's been shown time and time again, even across Smith's time here, that for all of his good play he's always got a relatively unforced game losing mistake in him. If you added up all the points he's lost us over the last few seasons, we'd probably have been top half.

Since promotion we have missed the top half by 19, 4 and 7 points

I am interested in these 30 points Mings might have caused us

[Mark Albrighton]

Just now, Zatman said:

Since promotion we have missed the top half by 19, 4 and 7 points

I am interested in these 30 points Mings might have caused us

And the points he has saved us need to be taken into consideration when making this calculation (as a small example, the point earned against Burnley following his essentially goal line clearance at the end of the game at the end of last season - that’s gone as far as I’m concerned).

If people want to try and calculate how many points he or any player has cost us, fine. But if they ignore moments in matches where their contributions actively won us points, then those people are doing half a job.

 

Re captaincy, as others have said. Leave it with McGinn for now, review at the end of the season, do not make a big deal out of it, because it really shouldn’t be.

[Wurzel]

First job of any new manager is to take the captaincy off John McGinn, he needs to try and get back some form to save his place in the starting 11, but for now leave it.

[Ingram85]

41 minutes ago, smokingzen said:

The only chumps making a big deal of it were the press and some fans... and guess what, if we change captain again, the same will probably happen. 

I can remember quite a few times where Gerrard talked about it before picking and after with a wry smile on his face. He made it public. 

[Talldarkandransome]

Take it of McGinn, he aint a leader. Don't even think he wanted it

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

If Carlos was fit Mings would still be playing. Would you rather we start Konsa/Bednarek or Konsa/Chambers going forward

I think its not zen your smoking

Konsa still is a very good CB.

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, smokingzen said:

Good will from who?

Personally I don't think Mings should be on the pitch never mind given the captaincy back. 

We have a team that over the last couple of years has had a weak mind set and a tendency to give away needless cheap goals and then capitulate in games, much of that has stemmed from Mings.

I think if Carlos hadn't been injured we'd be in a different position now, and would make a good shout for captain.

I think Gerrard would have got a lot less stick taking the captaincy from Mings, if

a) The first game without him we hadn't been so utterly pathetic

b) He hadn't inexplicably given it to McGinn - probably the weakest link in our XI!

[Zatman]

 

1 minute ago, Tom13 said:

Konsa still is a very good CB.

He is but he hasnt developed any leadership skills. Sadly needs Mings to still hold his hand

Was one game but him and Carlos was a shambles probably because Carlos could not communicate as well

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, Tom13 said:

I think Gerrard would have got a lot less stick taking the captaincy from Mings, if

a) The first game without him we hadn't been so utterly pathetic

b) He hadn't inexplicably given it to McGinn - probably the weakest link in our XI!

Or if he didnt built it up for 6 months

[May-Z]

Not an issue, for me. 

Leave it with McGinn, but drop him.

Give it to Young, Mings, or Martinez who are actually on the pitch. 

 

[smokingzen]

46 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Since promotion we have missed the top half by 19, 4 and 7 points

I am interested in these 30 points Mings might have caused us

Sorry i thought you'd be astute enough to realise i want referring to our first season back, and it was actually 4 & 6 points off respectively.

If you can't remember matches over the last 2 seasons where Mings has lost us* 10 points over that time, then you must have a very short term memory. Go back and check over some of the match or post match threads.

*Yes as someone else has commented, it's not a precise science for most games saying someone lost us a game, or cost us points, as there's many factors to take into account, and many ifs and buts, but Mings has made a lot of blunders at crucial times which have changed matches. This season alone he's had a few massive errors which have changed games. 

He's mentally weak and inconsistent and should be no where near the captaincy again. 

[weedman]

1 minute ago, smokingzen said:

Sorry i thought you'd be astute enough to realise i want referring to our first season back, and it was actually 4 & 6 points off respectively.

If you can't remember matches over the last 2 seasons where Mings has lost us* 10 points over that time, then you must have a very short term memory. Go back and check over some of the match or post match threads.

*Yes as someone else has commented, it's not a precise science for most games saying someone lost us a game, or cost us points, as there's many factors to take into account, and many ifs and buts, but Mings has made a lot of blunders at crucial times which have changed matches. This season alone he's had a few massive errors which have changed games. 

He's mentally weak and inconsistent and should be no where near the captaincy again. 

"a few", meaning one right, against Chelsea? 

[Nigel]

Young for me, he seems like the natural leader to me anyway.

He will also be easy to replace in a season or 2 when he retires.

[pete101]

If ya look at our team only Emi is currently a guaranteed starter , after that Cash and Digne are probably close to be called that.

For me Emi really needs to focus on his own game that has gone backwards. The other 2 I don't see as captains.

The rest of our team under a new management, none of them can be nailed on to start games. It's scary to see what a mess it is at the moment.

For me we stick with McGinn under new regime until they can put their stamp on the team

[AndyM3000]

Mings is the only leader but the rest of the team need shouting at so much it distracts him from his own job. We need 2/3 more leaders on the pitch.

[villaslash]

I think with the need to build morale and settle things leave it for now but don’t always play McGinn.

However, for me the captain should be a constant starter, actually barking out instructions to the team to reform or shift, stepping into situations to calm things down and have a chat with the ref. Only one player rings a bell. Mings seems a natural choice. I’d also like Ashley Young but I don’t know if he will be a constant starter long term.

[smokingzen]

41 minutes ago, weedman said:

"a few", meaning one right, against Chelsea? 

Oh ye of short memory... what about the Forest game before that for starters, gave away a needless freekick, then loses his man for the freekick, that's us of to another sh*t start and 1-0 down, given we drew 1-1, that's 2 points lost.

Then yes the very next game, the Chelsea game... stupid header whilst under no pressure what so ever... and 1-0 down... again.

There's a pattern here, and it's been like this for most of the time he's been at Villa, he got away with it more in the Championship as he wasn't as punished as much, but the premier league is a different beast. Even then, i can remember a whole host of games where he's amde stupid mistakes where we've been lucky not to be punished for them.