Our defensive positioning is going to kill us this season

[VillanousOne]

I'm not saying this is the case, but if we haven't improved defensively after last season (and I get that we did get better last season) then there is no excuses.

I really don't want another season were we have the attacking potential of a top 8 side, but the defence of a pub team.

 

If we can't get a defensive coach to sort out positioning and set piece defending then we will continue with the 'we have to score four goals to win a game' bullsh*t.

 

and i realise that this is just pre-season, and it will take time for Okore and Luna to settle, and any improvements will take time....... but.............

[AndyM3000]

I agree about Luna, he looked good but thats only because he kept having to recover. He got done a kipper for the own goal.

 

Looks like we are going for the 'We will just score more than you' approach, should smash some teams and no doubt be on the end of them ourselves again.

 

Dont like Delph and KEA playing together at all, needs to be one or the other, they both just come and take it of the CBs and then there is nobody infront of them to pass to. Westwood, KEA/Delph/Sylla and someone more attacking.

Edited August 10, 2013 by AndyM3000

[Pilchard]

 

We seemed to struggle with the ball over the top today.

 

We did, and it looked to be at least partly due to the lack of a big defender to get his nut on them. Could this be the factor that eventually sees Baker come in to play alongside Okore?

 

 

 

Personally I hope not - but that's more to do with me not rating Baker in the slightest (I know I'm in the minority with that).

 

The defence played fairly high up, and tried to (and failed) play offside a number of times. Still a lot of work to do there, I think.

 

Having said that, Luna was very good today and certainly one or two steps up from Bennett.

[tinker]

It's down to our midfield, the balls over the topaand through us should be stopped there. We can't play 3 forward looking midfielders and expect the other 2 to sweep up, especially when there not suited to winning the ball.....delph and ala are so similar and their not strong enough

[The Fun Factory]

This is Lambert's way so either you accept it, or will be annoyed every week. We just need the defence to be below average and I think our forward play will compensate for it. It can't be as dire as the December/January period last year though. Footbal is in the entertainment business and as Villa will never challenge for the top spots again you might as well be entertained whilst paying for your tickets. Would you either watch us or West Ham?

[VillanousOne]

This is Lambert's way so either you accept it, or will be annoyed every week. We just need the defence to be below average and I think our forward play will compensate for it. It can't be as dire as the December/January period last year though. Footbal is in the entertainment business and as Villa will never challenge for the top spots again you might as well be entertained whilst paying for your tickets. Would you either watch us or West Ham?

you're entitled to that opinion

but i don't accept the type of comedy defending every week that makes us the laughing stock of the premiership is ok as long as we score a few nice goals.

Attacking football and a reasonably competent level of defending doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

Every team will make mistakes, defensive howlers and clangers, but there is no reason to expect those to be every week.

 

Also not sure about this 'Lambert way' i don't think Norwich were as shit at us at defending.

[Enda]

This is Lambert's way so either you accept it, or will be annoyed every week. We just need the defence to be below average and I think our forward play will compensate for it. It can't be as dire as the December/January period last year though. Footbal is in the entertainment business and as Villa will never challenge for the top spots again you might as well be entertained whilst paying for your tickets. Would you either watch us or West Ham?

 

I agree with you to an extent so no disrespect when I say I think you're missing my point. I'm not suggesting we go the 4-5-1 hoofball way at all. Nothing like that. I'm loving the way we're passing the ball around and moving it. 

 

I'm talking about much more basic stuff than that. Simple things like whether you're 1 yard or 4 yards away from your man when a cross comes in. This has nothing to do with the way we play, and nothing to do with avoiding injuries in pre-season etc etc. It's basic, bread and butter stuff.

 

Let me give you an example. For one corner today, we set up the usual zonal marking system, and they had a man (can't remember which player it was, so let's call him Mr 1) reasonably free around the penalty spot. Someone got a head on it and the ball floated harmlessly enough (you know the sort of ball that loops up) towards Mr 1. Three (maybe four) of our players went to challenge for the dropping ball. That's fair enough. But when KEA went to challenge for that ball, he left a man (Mr 2) gaping wide open about eight yards from goal. Had the ball ended up near Mr 2, it was in the back of the net no question.

 

Now as happens nine times out of ten, somebody got a clearance on it and nothing happened, and nobody passes any remarks on the defending. But that's the sort of thing that, over the course of a season, kills you. It was plain to see last year as well.

 

Last season's defence was the worst in recent memory. We've made changes but I'm unconvinced. I'm really hoping Okore adjusts quickly to the pace of the league and does a Benteke for us, but we can't blame the man if he takes a few months to adjust.

[Villarocker]

I agree with the OP to a certain extent.

I thought Vlaar looked better and Okore looked very accomplished but Luna's positioning was no better than Bennett's. Their winger - Pawloski - left him for dead 3 or 4 times prior to crossing for their first goal. Even Vlaar had a go at him!

Defensive midfield, or the lack of it, is my other concern. I lost count of how many times their midfielders burst into our box unmarked, running past our midfield in the process. This is the area that worries me most, to be honest.

I am thinking that ww will be stronger than last season but I think we will be far from water tight. I just hope we outscore the opposition.

[smetrov]

He has the personnel

 

Lowton - Can't be far away from an England Cap

Vlaar - Established international

Okore - Highly rated prospect

Lunna\Bennett - Not sure about either - but the other 3 should be able to compensate.

 

Whats lacking is the understanding, and being drilled in defensive basics day in day out on the training ground - Lets hope it comes in time (and by time I mean around 10-12 games together - it shouldn't take season after season to assemble a reasonable defence)

[Ginko]

Whereas I think we definitely suffered from a lack of height with our defence, I really think the bigger issue with the second half today was the lack of protection from a CDM, and we have been lacking that for so long. Sylla is the closest thing we have, and as much as I like him and wanted him to get on the pitch to stop the rot, I still don't think he is the proper answer.

It's all very well saying Lambert's approach is scoring more than the opponent, but that means we'll never be beating the top teams again and that we're making ourselves a very easy team to figure out tactically. We need more than one approach, and it's not like it's a particularlt difficult thing to improve upon either. We've needed height and a no-nonsense midfielder to sit in front of the defence and break up play for years now and we still don't really have one. Hopefully Sylla is that man and he will get a lot of game time. I think he could be important this season.

I know today was only a friendly, but we were pretty much full strength and there's no excuse to sit back like we did. If that was the mentality that the players had whilst out there today then we have some big problems. They should be fighting for the full 90 minutes. Last season too often we only showed up for one half and not the other. Exact same thing happened today.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Ginko

[Villarocker]

Whereas I think we definitely suffered from a lack of height with our defence, I really think the bigger issue with the second half today was the lack of protection from a CDM, and we have been lacking that for so long. Sylla is the closest thing we have, and as much as I like him and wanted him to get on the pitch to stop the rot, I still don't think he is the proper answer.

It's all very well saying Lambert's approach is scoring more than the opponent, but that means we'll never be beating the top teams again and that we're making ourselves a very easy team to figure out tactically. We need more than one approach, and it's not like it's a particularlt difficult thing to improve upon either. We've needed height and a no-nonsense midfielder to sit in front of the defence and break up play for years now and we still don't really have one. Hopefully Sylla is that man and he will get a lot of game time. I think he could be important this season.

I know today was only a friendly, but we were pretty much full strength and there's no excuse to sit back like we did. If that was the mentality that the players had whilst out there today then we have some big problems. They should be fighting for the full 90 minutes. Last season too often we only showed up for one half and not the other. Exact same thing happened today.

Good shout mate!

I thought the same about a lot of your post. Maybe they were told to take it a bit easier in the second half because there were a few rash challenges going in first half. Lambert had a right go towards the Malaga bench after one particular challenge.

My concern is that it could have actually been that we still have that one half syndrome in us from last season. I hope that's not the case!

[sexbelowsound]

We were playing a team that got to the quarter finals of the Champions League and in spite of what Jack Woodward said they aren't behind us in pre season at all so it was a strong team they had out. Yes they have lost Isco, Joaquin and Toulalan but the rest of the team is still there.

[KHV]

This is Lambert's way so either you accept it, or will be annoyed every week. We just need the defence to be below average and I think our forward play will compensate for it. It can't be as dire as the December/January period last year though. Footbal is in the entertainment business and as Villa will never challenge for the top spots again you might as well be entertained whilst paying for your tickets. Would you either watch us or West Ham?

you're entitled to that opinion

but i don't accept the type of comedy defending every week that makes us the laughing stock of the premiership is ok as long as we score a few nice goals.

Attacking football and a reasonably competent level of defending doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

Every team will make mistakes, defensive howlers and clangers, but there is no reason to expect those to be every week.

 

Also not sure about this 'Lambert way' i don't think Norwich were as shit at us at defending.[qoute]

Norwich were dreadful under lambert. Only the relegated teams conceeded norwich. They conceeded roughly 2 goals per game. Do you not remember how cack they were when Mcleishs team even scored 3 at villa park? They were a joke that day.

This is Lambert's way so either you accept it, or will be annoyed every week. We just need the defence to be below average and I think our forward play will compensate for it. It can't be as dire as the December/January period last year though. Footbal is in the entertainment business and as Villa will never challenge for the top spots again you might as well be entertained whilst paying for your tickets. Would you either watch us or West Ham?

you're entitled to that opinion

but i don't accept the type of comedy defending every week that makes us the laughing stock of the premiership is ok as long as we score a few nice goals.

Attacking football and a reasonably competent level of defending doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

Every team will make mistakes, defensive howlers and clangers, but there is no reason to expect those to be every week.

 

Also not sure about this 'Lambert way' i don't think Norwich were as shit at us at defending.[qoute]

Norwich were dreadful under lambert. Only the relegated teams conceeded more than norwich. They conceeded roughly 2 goals per game. Do you not remember how cack they were when Mcleishs team even scored 3 at villa park? They were a joke that day.

[SikhInTrinity]

Whereas I think we definitely suffered from a lack of height with our defence, I really think the bigger issue with the second half today was the lack of protection from a CDM, and we have been lacking that for so long. Sylla is the closest thing we have, and as much as I like him and wanted him to get on the pitch to stop the rot, I still don't think he is the proper answer.

It's all very well saying Lambert's approach is scoring more than the opponent, but that means we'll never be beating the top teams again and that we're making ourselves a very easy team to figure out tactically. We need more than one approach, and it's not like it's a particularlt difficult thing to improve upon either. We've needed height and a no-nonsense midfielder to sit in front of the defence and break up play for years now and we still don't really have one. Hopefully Sylla is that man and he will get a lot of game time. I think he could be important this season.

I know today was only a friendly, but we were pretty much full strength and there's no excuse to sit back like we did. If that was the mentality that the players had whilst out there today then we have some big problems. They should be fighting for the full 90 minutes. Last season too often we only showed up for one half and not the other. Exact same thing happened today.

 

Exactly what I've been saying, the problem is if you play 4-2-4, you will concede goals, if Weimann and Gabby don't track back, then you have a midfielder moving to the side to shut down a player running forwards we are outnumbered. I can understand this formation against the lesser sides where we are expected to take it to them, but we play this formation against the likes of Arsenal, we will get murdered. Can see him reverting to 4-3-3 next week for sure though.

[TJVillan]

Please come to terms with the fact we will concede a lot of goals this year. Lambert's Norwich kept 3 clean sheets in 2011-12. That's less than we did last season. He'll always look to play attacking football.

 

Yesterday we played an incredibly attacking formation against a good team. We outscored them. It worked.

 

It's not easy to put a good solid defence together with players aged 20-23 unless you have silly money to go out and buy the world's top prospects. It will take time.

 

I guess you can focus on our defence being dodgy or our attack being really strong. I still remember the days of McLeish when we struggled to have 1 shot on target over 90 minutes, so I'd rather focus on the fact we play attractive football and get to watch 1 of the best strikers in the world do his thing. 

[sne]

We were playing a team that got to the quarter finals of the Champions League and in spite of what Jack Woodward said they aren't behind us in pre season at all so it was a strong team they had out. Yes they have lost Isco, Joaquin and Toulalan but the rest of the team is still there.

Except Demichelis, Lugano, Saviola, Baptista, Lucas, Nacho...

They pretty much lost the spine of the team, but they're still a good(ish) team

[AshVillain]

I would put a sizeable bet on us conceding at least 30 goals from set pieces this season. That's our biggest problem at the mo imo.

[Swerbs]

I would put a sizeable bet on us conceding at least 30 goals from set pieces this season. That's our biggest problem at the mo imo.

No way will we concede 30 from set pieces.

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

I do agree that defensive positioning is looking suspect though it's very early days with very new players and so we need to allow them to settle.

So far we look much stronger with Luna; he helps out in great places, orders players to cover and contributes to team play with neat passing; he isn't scared to put his foot in either.

 

Either way it's not fair to judge players just yet and certain personalities need to be worked out, for example who is the best CB combination and why. Gone are the days where Laursen's playstyle/understanding of the game made any partner look great.

 

If our defence suffers it will be Lambert fault and right at this moment I am a tad concerned with the CDM choices.protecting the back 4 (please let us keep it 4 not 3).

CDM choices heaped the pressure on the our back 3/4 last year as the two we chose couldn't actually defend; I hope Delph can continue to be the box to box helper and the other plays a solid anchor role.

Sylla could be taking on this role though he did seem encouraged to take the ball forward last year, but I think the return of Herd will allow us some tactical balance. He might not be the best but he understands how to get in the way and this is absolutely crucial if you're going to play a 4231 or with an attacking ethos.

 

We need tactical balance, everywhere, so far attack wise we look extremely fluid even if some players are going to play away from their natural position.

As an attacking example it seems Tonev is covering Albrightons talent at putting in a cross, which is great, last season we were desperate for darting runs and quick balls, but Lambert needs to continue working out which attributes we lack, defensively that's a defensive minded leader, in CDM or the back 4. 

 

I feel we have too many players who do a job or are attack minded; we don't have enough players who are focussed on keeping it tight; if Baker stays fit he could be our surprise rock, he desperately needs games to iron out some timing issues and to build his confidence but so far his reading of the game looks very decent.

[smetrov]

Whatever the formation , tactics - its up to Lambert to tighten that defence - if we go months on end without keeping a clean sheet - Im expecting pretty similar to last season TBH.