Spurs

[GlobalVillan]

1 hour ago, wict01 said:

I'm torn on it tbh. Clubs treat fans/supporters like customers these days, and as a customer you have a right to complain and get your money back when the product is shite. What are we to clubs? Fans, or customers? They can't have it both ways. I don't think clubs should reimburse fans for crap performances but equally if fans weren't gouged for ticket prices and people had paid £15-20 to be there they wouldn't be half as bothered. You can't charge people a premium for a "high end product" and have players turning up not arsed. 

Really? So when they beat Man United 6-1 at Old Trafford, did the Spurs fans contact the club to make an extra payment for performing way above expectations?

Of course they didn't and nor should they. It's entertainment at the end of the day and you win some, you lose some. Demanding refunds is disgusting.

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said:

Really? So when they beat Man United 6-1 at Old Trafford, did the Spurs fans contact the club to make an extra payment for performing way above expectations?

Of course they didn't and nor should they. It's entertainment at the end of the day and you win some, you lose some. Demanding refunds is disgusting.

In fairness it was behind closed doors so they even missed that  

[GlobalVillan]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

In fairness it was behind closed doors so they even missed that  

Ha true. Point stands though. You can't demand refunds just because you don't like the result.

[mjmooney]

34 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said:

Ha true. Point stands though. You can't demand refunds just because you don't like the result.

Quite. I mean, on that basis, the Villa owe me a bloody fortune. 

[OutByEaster?]

Do we know where they are financially?

I know they restructured the stadium debt to make it more manageable, but I wonder if they budgeted for no European football?

They have a model that leans more heavily than most on the £5m a game they make from their stadium on matchdays - no Europe will mean less matchdays and a big impact. 

Their sponsors have most likely got levels they pay based on performance - those will be down, and of course they'll be missing the European TV money that they've had in the past.

The squad is thin, and built for only one style of play and they need a GK, some help in defence, attacking midfielders and a potential Kane replacement - if their income is down from £400m odd by as much as £100m  - will the money be there to invest - will they be selling Kane to make up that shortfall rather than revamp the squad?

Perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part, but are Spurs three defeats away from being f****d?

 

[VillaJ100]

12 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Do we know where they are financially?

I know they restructured the stadium debt to make it more manageable, but I wonder if they budgeted for no European football?

They have a model that leans more heavily than most on the £5m a game they make from their stadium on matchdays - no Europe will mean less matchdays and a big impact. 

Their sponsors have most likely got levels they pay based on performance - those will be down, and of course they'll be missing the European TV money that they've had in the past.

The squad is thin, and built for only one style of play and they need a GK, some help in defence, attacking midfielders and a potential Kane replacement - if their income is down from £400m odd by as much as £100m  - will the money be there to invest - will they be selling Kane to make up that shortfall rather than revamp the squad?

Perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part, but are Spurs three defeats away from being f****d?

 

I think the stadium debt is not insignificant but is about £30 million a year which for a 'Big 6' (urgh) and Europe ever present is more than manageable and probably covered with the increased revenue.

Where Spurs will eventually fall down though is having one billionaire owner, Lewis is worth about £4 billion with NSWE being worth about £10 billion. It's kind of self sustaining at the moment but one day they will need a massive repair/squad refresh a bit like Liverpool look like they need currently and if they don't have a Bale etc to sell to help fund it I don't know if the owner will fork out £300 million. Some clubs owners lean on the club itself for funding like Man U famously but the difference in income between them and Spurs is huge.

Bit yeah no Europe will definitely expedite that

[Don_Simon]

18 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Do we know where they are financially?

I know they restructured the stadium debt to make it more manageable, but I wonder if they budgeted for no European football?

They have a model that leans more heavily than most on the £5m a game they make from their stadium on matchdays - no Europe will mean less matchdays and a big impact. 

Their sponsors have most likely got levels they pay based on performance - those will be down, and of course they'll be missing the European TV money that they've had in the past.

The squad is thin, and built for only one style of play and they need a GK, some help in defence, attacking midfielders and a potential Kane replacement - if their income is down from £400m odd by as much as £100m  - will the money be there to invest - will they be selling Kane to make up that shortfall rather than revamp the squad?

Perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part, but are Spurs three defeats away from being f****d?

 

I dont know how to insert gifs, so I'll write it out instead...

"Make it so".

[Demitri_C]

Their team minus kane is atrocious 

If he goes they are absolutely screwed. Their whole defence is abysmal barring romaro who can defend but looks a red card waiting to happen in some games. Royal sanchez sessagnon dier all very poor players

Their midfield poor. Bentacur good player but thats a big injury will he be same? Bissoumas flopped and been injured skipps poor, kulveski looks like he does not want tO be signed permanently.

Then on top of that they have son who looks finished now and a 55m donkey in ricarldson.

Thats not to mention the loan players they have out that will come back.  Gil, ndombole and lo celso

[Mark Albrighton]

14 hours ago, GlobalVillan said:

Ha true. Point stands though. You can't demand refunds just because you don't like the result.

But did the Spurs fans demand a refund en masse or did the Spurs players volunteer it to offer some appeasement? It comes across like it was the latter. And if so, that’s the players’ choice, so I wouldn’t expect the supporters to pay anything more in other, more successful games. 

Yes, you can say that Spurs fans need to take it on the chin, a heavy defeat every now and then happens and it’s part and parcel of the game. But if it’s been instigated by the players rather than a concerted campaign from the Spurs supporters for a refund, it’s not fair to criticise the supporters for taking the money back when offered. Spurs supporters en masse demanding money back, not just one or two Twitter accounts, petitions and the like, yeah sure have at them. Unless I’ve missed something, that hasn’t happened here.

My issue with this is what counts as a thrashing/bad performance? If Spurs lose 3-0 to Man Utd tonight, play a bit better, but still not great, does that warrant another refund? 

But this has happened before (Man Utd 8-2 Arsenal). Sunderland did it a while back when they lost 8-0 to Southampton. ‘kin Sunderland, man. They had about a hundred shite results from that time where you could say “Well what about that result? Losing 6-1 to relegation threatened Villa wasn’t great, was it? Happy enough with the result and performance to keep the money in that instance are you?”.

It’s just something clubs seemingly do (very occasionally). I just gently disagree with the idea that @BOF says that it’s insulting to Newcastle. I don’t think it’s anything to do with Newcastle at all.
 

[wict01]

14 hours ago, GlobalVillan said:

Really? So when they beat Man United 6-1 at Old Trafford, did the Spurs fans contact the club to make an extra payment for performing way above expectations?

Of course they didn't and nor should they. It's entertainment at the end of the day and you win some, you lose some. Demanding refunds is disgusting.

I agree, I don't think there should be refunds. My point is simply that if clubs are going to treat (relatively) loyal fans as customers, don't be surprised if some turn around and then act like customers in return. I think there's definitely a distinction to be drawn between the two. 

Although as others have said, it's definitely more of an appeasement attempt on behalf of the players than anything really driven by the fans barring maybe one or two idiots that rang in to TalkSport. 

[villa4europe]

Just seen a funny stat that made me chuckle

Spurs are the only club to ever finish above a pep team and not win the league

[The Fun Factory]

15 hours ago, GlobalVillan said:

Ha true. Point stands though. You can't demand refunds just because you don't like the result.

When you start to charge 2 grand for a season ticket you can kind of understand the unhappiness.  It is the route we are slowing taking as well.

[sne]

Nagelsmann & Ragnick...

[Demitri_C]

Come on united

 

Yuck i need a bath

[Zatman]

46 minutes ago, wict01 said:

I agree, I don't think there should be refunds. My point is simply that if clubs are going to treat (relatively) loyal fans as customers, don't be surprised if some turn around and then act like customers in return. I think there's definitely a distinction to be drawn between the two. 

 

I can just imagine a bunch of fans turning up demanding to speak to the manager

"We told you before, we don't have a manager"

[fightoffyour]

28 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Just seen a funny stat that made me chuckle

Spurs are the only club to ever finish above a pep team and not win the league

[HKP90]

6 hours ago, wict01 said:

I agree, I don't think there should be refunds. My point is simply that if clubs are going to treat (relatively) loyal fans as customers, don't be surprised if some turn around and then act like customers in return. I think there's definitely a distinction to be drawn between the two. 

Although as others have said, it's definitely more of an appeasement attempt on behalf of the players than anything really driven by the fans barring maybe one or two idiots that rang in to TalkSport. 

I see your point, but I disagree. When you buy a match ticket, you are buying access to the event, to watch a game of football. You are not buying a ticket to watch your team win. Win lose or draw, you got what you paid for. 

 

[wict01]

13 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

I see your point, but I disagree. When you buy a match ticket, you are buying access to the event, to watch a game of football. You are not buying a ticket to watch your team win. Win lose or draw, you got what you paid for. 

 

I'm not saying that's my personal position on the matter, just that I'm not shocked when it does happen. 

[HKP90]

10 minutes ago, wict01 said:

I'm not saying that's my personal position on the matter, just that I'm not shocked when it does happen. 

I know, I wasn't being funny. I think the Sky 6 thing has really sucked perspective out of their fan bases. 

[wict01]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

I know, I wasn't being funny. I think the Sky 6 thing has really sucked perspective out of their fan bases. 

Totally agree, I think it is a symptom of the current trend of impatient, reactionary and entitled social media fans ala AFTV. (Aware this may make me sound ancient, insert "Old man yells at cloud" gif here, but I am only 30 )