Drugs

[wazzap24]

On 25/03/2019 at 17:46, Rugeley Villa said:

The weed from years ago was chilled out stuff. The stuff they smoke now turns people into zombies. 

This is a myth imo. 

I’m a 20+ year ‘veteran’ and the idea that cannabis is getting stronger and stronger just isn’t true. 

There have been a few articles in recent times (some coming from ignorance amongst the authorities) about how everyone’s smoking super strong ‘Skunk’ and we are on the verge of a Mental Health crisis. 

Skunk is a strain and not a particularly popular one at that. I can’t remember the last time I smoked or was even offered Skunk, but it was years ago. 

The other suggestion I’ve seen is that the ‘new weed’ on the streets has THC levels of 10-14% and in the ‘olden days’ it was only 5/6%. Again this simply isn’t true. ‘Purple Haze’, one of the most famous strains that pretty much everyone has heard of has been around since the 70’s (allegedly born out of California when some righteous dude mixed a traditional haze strain with some unknown imported stuff). It has natural THC levels of around 12-14%, always has, always will. 

Morocco has been a ‘cannabis capital’ for centuries, with documented history dating back to the 16th century. The stuff that grows there now, is the stuff that grew there hundreds of years ago. 

My personal favourite of all time is ‘Luke Skywalker OG Kush’, another born out of Calfornia, but in 2003 and If grown correctly gives about 26-28% THC. I’ve been able to get the over here since about ‘05. 

The strongest stuff I ever smoked was some ‘white solids’ from Amsterdam. This was in 1999 when ‘solids’ over here meant about 50% resin and the other 50% was everything from tyre rubber to ratshit. The stuff was insane and I’ve never been so battered. One joint absolutely canned me. That was 20 years ago and I’ve probably smoked almost as many different strains as you’ve had lines since then! 

The thing is, it’s a plant. You can’t really do much to the natural THC levels. If you grow the plant correctly, you will get the natural THC level for the particular strain you are growing. If you don’t, it will be lower. You can’t do anything to increase THC levels beyond what the strain itself produces. 

What has changed is, the growing culture in the UK has become hugely sophisticated. There are hydroponic suppliers all over and you can set up a grow pretty easily, arguably easier than trying to grow tomatoes in your greenhouse. I know 2 growers and they take it proper serious. Not just for the cash, you can bang out any old shite and the young chavs will buy it. They have a pride in growing the best stuff, not the strongest, but the best. They are like the people that grow giant Marrows or exotic plants for flower shows. 

So the difference is not that weed in itself has gotten stronger, but more of the weed we get in the UK is now produced ‘correctly’ and loads more strains are now easily available, all with slightly differing strengths and effects. 

TL;DR: Weed isn’t getting stronger.

Edited June 15, 2019 by wazzap24

[bickster]

Weed is most definitely much stronger now and I used to wake up and roll a joint for breakfast. I was smoking skunk years ago, that shit was strong but only really started appearing in the late '80s / early '90s but never threw a whitey, ever

I had a joint a few years back (in fact the last time I smoked - mainly due to the draconian drug driving laws where you can be guilty of drug driving 6 weeks after smoking because the test really isn't sophisticated enough) and actually threw my first whitey ever, it was that strong and I built it so know how much I put in

It was geting stronger and stronger when I was a habitual user for 20 years

[blandy]

46 minutes ago, bickster said:

I had a joint a few years back

Tory! 

[mottaloo]

What's a "whitey"  (in drug reaction terms and not "Love Thy Neighbour") ?

[wazzap24]

44 minutes ago, bickster said:

Weed is most definitely much stronger now and I used to wake up and roll a joint for breakfast. I was smoking skunk years ago, that shit was strong but only really started appearing in the late '80s / early '90s but never threw a whitey, ever

I had a joint a few years back (in fact the last time I smoked - mainly due to the draconian drug driving laws where you can be guilty of drug driving 6 weeks after smoking because the test really isn't sophisticated enough) and actually threw my first whitey ever, it was that strong and I built it so know how much I put in

It was geting stronger and stronger when I was a habitual user for 20 years

Cannabis in itself hasn’t gotten stronger Bicks, it’s not possible. There is no evidence that any modern growing techniques have enhanced THC levels beyond which any given strain is capable of producing naturally. You’ve got Indica, Sativa and Hybrids, loads of which have been around for decades, with origins from plants 1000’s years old. Any ‘new’ weed (unless discovered in the wild) is only a hybrid of a previous source strain or a hybrid of a hybrid and so on. Weed with 25-30% THC levels has been available over here for the past 25-30 years. 

I accept that enhancements in growing techniques means THC levels are now at the higher end of the scale per strain (ie; an imported Purple Haze may have been 10/11% 20 years ago and 14% homegrown now), and that quality weed is more widely available, but the natural strength of the strains are the same as they ever were. 

Pulling a whitey doesn’t mean the weed was stronger, I’ve had a couple in my time, they are an unexplainable phenomenon 

 

 

[bickster]

23 minutes ago, mottaloo said:

What's a "whitey"  (in drug reaction terms and not "Love Thy Neighbour") ?

Quote

Whitey

an undesirable reaction to smoking cannabis common amongst lightweights and first-time tokers. Symptoms include dizzyness, clammy skin, nausea and vomiting.  
It gets its name from the paleness of the sufferer as the blood drains out the capillaries under the skin due to a decrease in blood pressure.

Urban dictionart

[Genie]

When I was 16/17 I was working at Drayton Manor and an Asian guy offered me and my mate a bag of weed for one of the teddies on the game we were operating. 

We did the deal, and although we’d smoked weed a few times before both threw massive whitey’s. It was the only time it happened. It’s a lot like a hangover but without the headache.

[wazzap24]

I’ve only ever had two whitey’s. Once i was pissed, so should have known better anyway and the other randomly, after half-a-J of some weed I’d been smoking for days previous. 

They just see a bit random to me. 

[Xann]

46 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

There is no evidence that any modern growing techniques have enhanced THC levels beyond which any given strain is capable of producing naturally. 

Well yes. However the stains don't stay static. Plants with desirable characteristics are chosen to seed, obviously. Grow enough and sooner or later you'll get mutants cropping up. It might be stunted, or have peculiar leaf formation, but if you're an aspiring marijuana farmer you want it to get you bombed. There's your fork in the strain, and sooner or later it'll be crossed with someone else's mutant strain. Rapid turnover of generations and you get where we are now.

You're not telling me a 3g bag of AK47 has the same amount of THC as 3g of Jamaican weed or North African resin that was everywhere until the bud frenzy. That's just nonsense.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

When I was 16/17 I was working at Drayton Manor and an Asian guy offered me and my mate a bag of weed for one of the teddies on the game we were operating. 

We did the deal, and although we’d smoked weed a few times before both threw massive whitey’s. It was the only time it happened. It’s a lot like a hangover but without the headache.

Damn Asians and their dodgy weed

[wazzap24]

1 hour ago, Xann said:

Well yes. However the stains don't stay static. Plants with desirable characteristics are chosen to seed, obviously. Grow enough and sooner or later you'll get mutants cropping up. It might be stunted, or have peculiar leaf formation, but if you're an aspiring marijuana farmer you want it to get you bombed. There's your fork in the strain, and sooner or later it'll be crossed with someone else's mutant strain. Rapid turnover of generations and you get where we are now.

You're not telling me a 3g bag of AK47 has the same amount of THC as 3g of Jamaican weed or North African resin that was everywhere until the bud frenzy. That's just nonsense.

No, that isn’t what I’m saying. I’m not sure why you think it is? 

The argument over Jamaican Weed etc isn’t the point. They are just strains, like any other, all with differing THC levels. Bog standard Thai Weed (that horrible block stuff) that was popular from the mid 90’s comes in at between 14-24% THC, old school Yardie Weed was the same, AK47 is 13-20%.Resin is a whole different argument. It’s like Cocaine, purity depends entirely on what other crap gets mixed in. 

Today, the strongest strains come in at high 20%’s, with a couple claiming 30%+. It doesn’t go up much because of my previous point - the amount of THC produced cannot exceed the amount the source plant/s are capable of. Including ‘mutants’. Might be possible in future, isn’t possible now. 

I’m not arguing that there aren’t some stronger variants now more readily available in the UK that say, 25 years ago. But, the idea that weed itself has gotten inherently stronger over that period of time is wrong. As per previous post, a lot of today’s popular strains have been around for decades - maybe more so abroad, but high quality stuff has been pretty easy to get here for well in excess of a decade. 

It’s an important point to me, because it’s already being used as the next bull**t argument against decriminisation. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by wazzap24

[Xann]

23 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

No, that isn’t what I’m saying. I’m not sure why you think it is? 

The argument over Jamaican Weed etc isn’t the point. They are just strains, like any other, all with differing THC levels. Bog standard Thai Weed (that horrible block stuff) that was popular from the mid 90’s comes in at between 14-24% THC, old school Yardie Weed was the same, AK47 is 13-20%.Resin is a whole different argument. It’s like Cocaine, purity depends entirely on what other crap gets mixed in. 

Today, the strongest strains come in at high 20%’s, with a couple claiming 30%+. It doesn’t go up because of my previous point - the amount of THC produced cannot exceed the amount the source plant/s are capable of. Including ‘mutants’. Might be possible in future, isn’t possible now. 

I’m not arguing that there aren’t some stronger variants now more readily available in the UK that say, 25 years ago. But, the idea that weed itself has gotten inherently stronger over that period of time is wrong. As per previous post, a lot of today’s popular strains have been around for decades - maybe more so abroad, but high quality stuff has been pretty easy to get here for well in excess of a decade. 

It’s an important point to me, because it’s already being used as the next bull**t argument against decriminisation. 

The labs are saying it's ramping

Quote

New Study Shows How Marijuana's Potency Has Changed Over Time

Forbes

[Rugeley Villa]

Out of all the drugs I’ve taken, and I’ve taken most. I’ve never been so ***** up than I have when I took cannabis. It’s just one drug I could never take to. I like downers in tablet form, but weed wasn’t for me. I used to suck bongs and I’d be totally out of it for hours. Wouldn’t be able to move and feel really sick. Ketamine in tablet form came very close though, although that was slightly enjoyable, but hell at the same time. 

[wazzap24]

24 minutes ago, Xann said:

The labs are saying it's ramping

Forbes

The problem with studies like that are, there is no information on what strains of cannabis were compared. They are saying that samples of professionally grown cannabis in 2019 are close to 20% higher in THC than 1989, but there’s no info on what kind of weed that was. 

There’s been ‘research’ over here stating 93% of UK weed is now ‘Skunk’. Based on less than 1k samples, from only 5 different police forces and obviously only testing weed that was actually seized. So in reality, 93% from a sample size of about 0.0000001% of the market. 

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by wazzap24

[Xann]

I'm thinking your starting point is later than mine and the labs?

You're maybe looking at a percentage increase? 

We're looking at multiples. 

 

 

[wazzap24]

9 hours ago, Xann said:

I'm thinking your starting point is later than mine and the labs?

You're maybe looking at a percentage increase? 

We're looking at multiples. 

 

 

Yeah possibly. 

I’m sceptical about any comparative results from ‘official’ testing, because there is an almost complete lack of information available on what kinds were tested and compared. 

There was an article recently (from a credible scientific/medical publication) which talked about cannabis testing in the USA and how All of the research and comparisons are done using an awful strain of government grown stuff originating from the 60’s. The DEA announced three years ago that federal laws would be changed for the growing of cannabis for legal research, but as of today there is still only one license in place. This means all ‘official’ research is conducted using one, potentially irrelevant strain. 

Here is an article about it from the Washington Post: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/13/government-marijuana-looks-nothing-like-the-real-stuff-see-for-yourself/?utm_term=.ed342c6ccb82&noredirect=on

Quote

Government marijuana looks nothing like the real stuff. See for yourself.......

If you're a researcher looking to work with marijuana — to say, investigate how it impairs people, or how it could help people suffering from certain ailments — you don't have access to the weed that everyone else is using. Since the late 1960s the federal government has mandated that all marijuana used in research has to come through the federal government.

To investigate the real-world effects of marijuana, however, researchers need a product that looks and feels like the real thing. And they're increasingly frustrated with government weed that is something else entirely.

 

I don’t know much about the testing over here, I know we are one of the biggest exporters of cannabis in the world, but it’s all hidden, with licenses given out to companies involving T may’s husband and ‘exclusive deals’ given to the husband of......the UK’s drug minister! 

The problem is, the authorities are so far behind the curve in terms of what’s actually happening and testing is massively hamstrung by politics - therefore a lot of it, if not all,  just isn’t credible from a scientific perspective. 

I appreciate I only really have anecdotal evidence involving personal experience, but if could get high quality weed on chemsley wood 15 years ago, it’s clearly been about a lot longer than these recent ‘studies’ are claiming. 

[chrisp65]

Just now, wazzap24 said:

I appreciate I only really have anecdotal evidence involving personal experience, but if could get high quality weed on chemsley wood 15 years ago, it’s clearly been about a lot longer than these recent ‘studies’ are claiming. 

Is that the issue here partly?

Your anecdotes of little having changed draw (pun) on 15 years of experience.

Whilst others are saying what it was like in the 70's and 80's

For some on here, 10 or 15 years counts as current.

There has always been exceptionally strong stuff around, not least as you never know when some Howard Marks wannabee decides to lace it with opium. But 'on average', If you were offered a freebie in 1985 it had all the punch of a glass of wine. There was a good chance back in the day that if someone offered you grass, it actually was grass. 

[bickster]

11 hours ago, wazzap24 said:

There’s been ‘research’ over here stating 93% of UK weed is now ‘Skunk’. Based on less than 1k samples, from only 5 different police forces and obviously only testing weed that was actually seized. So in reality, 93% from a sample size of about 0.0000001% of the market. 

Drugs in the UK are pretty much controlled by a handful of cities. London and Liverpool chiefly. It doesn't matter how many forces you study most of it originates in those two areas. I deal with forces from every corner of Britain and most of the time if its not a local force, then I'm dealing with a drugs enquiry.

And if my own empiral research is anything to go by, then that 93% figure is bang on (nearly everyone who gets in my car stoned stinks of the green). The only people I know who smoke resin are the lifetime habitual users and guess whatt hey smoke it because the other stuff is too strong, they don't want to be cabbaged.

[Rugeley Villa]

Weed is definitely stronger nowadays. I work with plenty of pot heads, and they all smoke strong weed that turns them into zombies. 20 year ago and you still had the normal weed floating about, but it’s mainly skunk now. Most pot heads I know have mental health issues, and I put that down to strong weed. 

[Genie]

I watched some mates of mine go from perfectly “normal” to zombies, slow, wasters, lazy after smoking weed every day over a couple of years. 

Its reason like that which make me agree that legalising it is not a good idea.