Margaret Thatcher dies of a stroke.

[Awol]

 

So, respecting the view of the majority what is the harm in spending the same on a good send off for a politically giant figure as it has cost the country to house that barsteward  Abu Qatada?

 

If you're so keen on following the views of the majority, why use a vague question and then read across to impute support for a specific event which wasn't asked about?

I wrote: "more people think she was good for the country than bad", I didn't make any comment about whether a majority approved of using tax payers money for her funeral. I did highlight that it was a paltry sum in terms of money spent by the Government and used the example of the cost being equal to the bill so far for keeping that lovely terrorist Abu Qatada in the country, just to put it in perspective - of course Drat then deliberately misinterpreted that and said:

So now your "justification" for the costs and the disruption is because of Abu?

Which (I'm sure he knows) was obviously not the point at all.

 

No opinions will ever be changed on this issue so I'll say this before ducking out of the celebrations:

 

The haters are thrilled that she is dead and have made their point repeatedly. Whether or not wishing a helpless old woman dead reflects an ignoble streak in an individuals character is a matter of for them. Personally I think it betrays the falseness of often stated claims to occupy the moral high ground on so many social and political issues, but she's gone, dead, which really should satisfy their lust for vengeance - even those born after her career ended.

 

However, the opinion they hold of Thatcher is far from unanimous and many others welcome the opportunity to mark her passing in what they consider to be the appropriate manner for an inspirational and transformative national leader. The haters would like to deny them this opportunity out of sheer small minded spite, and no doubt there will be pithy responses about this being an appropriate reflection of the woman's character. Fine, in which case let's not pretend on other issues that they hold themselves to some higher moral standard. 

 

In my view Thatcher was the right woman at the right time, someone brave enough to administer the medicine required to cure the "sick man of Europe", circa 1979. If a good leader is one who gets more right than wrong, and a great leader is one who achieves that through principal rather than populism then she was a great leader. Her record as the longest serving PM of the 20th Century would seem to reflect that.

 

As someone said earlier in the thread, I take pleasure in knowing that the central legacy of her tenure remains secure. The evil of real socialism is dead in the UK, never to return. For that I am most certainly grateful.

 

RIP Mrs T. I hope you have a good send off.

[drat01]

I did not deliberate misinterpret it at all as you well know - please stop causing problems. I just commented on what you wrote and it's interesting that others picked up on the same also, so it would seem that it came across as that is what you meant  The mention of Abu had nothing whatsoever to do with the subject in hand other than if you were using it as some sort of justification for the massive expense

 

I see you have now taken to moral high ground approach to try and point score in this. I appreciate that anyone can be a lone voice on this, but surely even you are not saying that this is just some old lady's funeral as you are trying to make it out. If it was that then it would have been a more private affair. Also you make it out as though Thatcher and all that she stood for and her legacy stopped the day her own party kicked her our. Again are you honestly saying that the policies that she based so much on are not the cornerstone of what many in the Tory party still stand by?

 

I am more than happy with my hatred of the woman for what she did and what she stood for and for the continuation of those beliefs. Her death is bugger all in that, in fact it makes it slightly worse because as we have seen, and we are seeing in this thread they "myth" of the woman and the policies is now getting to become an even bigger monster and reasoning and justification to try and impose quite awful policies and ideologies. You may enjoy and like the greed and selfishness of what the Thatcher legacy brings, personally I don't. Luckily it seems that are still many many more in the UK that agree with me on that

 

One for the Eurosceptics

[blandy]

The haters would like to deny them this opportunity out of sheer small minded spite,

. No, if the adherents of the witch want to do a big thing, then pay for it. Don't use the military, the police, St. Paul's etc. at public expense for it.

[Richard]

So, respecting the view of the majority what is the harm in spending the same on a good send off for a politically giant figure as it has cost the country to house that barsteward  Abu Qatada?

 

If you're so keen on following the views of the majority, why use a vague question and then read across to impute support for a specific event which wasn't asked about?

I wrote: "more people think she was good for the country than bad", I didn't make any comment about whether a majority approved of using tax payers money for her funeral. I did highlight that it was a paltry sum in terms of money spent by the Government and used the example of the cost being equal to the bill so far for keeping that lovely terrorist Abu Qatada in the country, just to put it in perspective - of course Drat then deliberately misinterpreted that and said:

So now your "justification" for the costs and the disruption is because of Abu?

Which (I'm sure he knows) was obviously not the point at all.

 

No opinions will ever be changed on this issue so I'll say this before ducking out of the celebrations:

 

The haters are thrilled that she is dead and have made their point repeatedly. Whether or not wishing a helpless old woman dead reflects an ignoble streak in an individuals character is a matter of for them. Personally I think it betrays the falseness of often stated claims to occupy the moral high ground on so many social and political issues, but she's gone, dead, which really should satisfy their lust for vengeance - even those born after her career ended.

 

However, the opinion they hold of Thatcher is far from unanimous and many others welcome the opportunity to mark her passing in what they consider to be the appropriate manner for an inspirational and transformative national leader. The haters would like to deny them this opportunity out of sheer small minded spite, and no doubt there will be pithy responses about this being an appropriate reflection of the woman's character. Fine, in which case let's not pretend on other issues that they hold themselves to some higher moral standard. 

 

In my view Thatcher was the right woman at the right time, someone brave enough to administer the medicine required to cure the "sick man of Europe", circa 1979. If a good leader is one who gets more right than wrong, and a great leader is one who achieves that through principal rather than populism then she was a great leader. Her record as the longest serving PM of the 20th Century would seem to reflect that.

 

As someone said earlier in the thread, I take pleasure in knowing that the central legacy of her tenure remains secure. The evil of real socialism is dead in the UK, never to return. For that I am most certainly grateful.

 

RIP Mrs T. I hope you have a good send off.

excellent post, for me the best post in this thread by far

[villaajax]

 

Oh well, I didn't buy it and the point was still made.

 

Feeble attempt at protest them

 

 

I'm not protesting Thatcher's death, I'm all for it.

[PauloBarnesi]

In other news Fergie is going. No not the one out of Black Eyed Peas nor the wine fanatic of Manchester. 

[8pints]

In other news Fergie is going. No not the one out of Black Eyed Peas nor the wine fanatic of Manchester. 

 

 

 

This one?

 

 

[peterms]

In my view Thatcher was the right woman at the right time, someone brave enough to administer the medicine required to cure the "sick man of Europe", circa 1979. If a good leader is one who gets more right than wrong, and a great leader is one who achieves that through principal rather than populism then she was a great leader. Her record as the longest serving PM of the 20th Century would seem to reflect that.

 

It's a common sentiment among her supporters that the policies her governments followed were necessary, and worked in the sense of helping the economy.  It seems they hope to make people believe it simply by repetition.

 

I posted this link earlier.  It's a summary of some key facts about what happened to the economy before, during and after her time in office.  It looks at a few of the common economic indicators, like inflation, unemployment, growth, and inequality.

 

The summary is

 

Last week, we pulled together and tweeted a set of charts (including a few screenshots of charts we found) about the Thatcher government’s economic record. They show that on all key fronts, her government failed, absolutely or by comparison with other UK governments over the last 60 or so years. We have now added  some more charts, and offer the information they contain as an antidote to the British establishment’s evidence-lite but ideology-heavy eulogies of her government’s economic performance.

 

We look at the record on unemployment, GDP changes, manufacturing employment, inflation, current account… and note that her government had the political good fortune of near-peak UK North Sea Oil, whose benefits were thrown away in plugging short term economic gaps, rather than invested for the long term.

 

Above all, her deregulation of finance and the City of London (continued alas by her successors) set the UK on a false path, one that has severely damaged the UK’s economy and social fabric. And continues to do so. Near the end of this blog, you can find a chart on private sector (especially financial sector) indebtedness which -far outstrippping public sector debt – started to balloon in the late 1980s.

 

The figures in that piece are worth looking at, for anyone interested in reviewing the facts and getting beyond the hyperbole.

[CI]

that

 

Is it me or do she look quite do-able in that pic

[colhint]

its you I'm afraid

[AVFCforever1991]

 

that

 

Is it me or do she look quite do-able in that pic

 

 

[peterms]

In that picture, apart from the silly jumper, she looks normal.  But she changed all that, to project a different image.  This is quite interesting on Thatcher and her careful choice of clothes:

 

Was Thatcher a Drag Queen?

[colhint]

To be fair Pete, that isn't quite fair. Women in most positions are not just rated on performance, forget the political aspect here, they are rated far far more than men on their clothes and hair. Forget the BBC, Mirror, Telegraph etc, most of the female magazines are quick to jump on any faux pas in their outfit. Not just Thatcher, anyone in the limelight. I suspect we men have no idea just  how much

[peterms]

To be fair Pete, that isn't quite fair. Women in most positions are not just rated on performance, forget the political aspect here, they are rated far far more than men on their clothes and hair. Forget the BBC, Mirror, Telegraph etc, most of the female magazines are quick to jump on any faux pas in their outfit. Not just Thatcher, anyone in the limelight. I suspect we men have no idea just  how much

Yes, that's a point made in the article.  What's interesting is the response she made to that, which is what the article tries to discuss.

 

[snowychap]

Whether or not wishing a helpless old woman dead reflects an ignoble streak in an individuals character is a matter of for them.

It would have been fine, I guess, if they'd just remarked that she's 'in a wooden box, thank god' or would they have been classed as 'haters' with ignoble streaks in their character then too?

Edit:

...would like to deny them this opportunity out of sheer small minded spite...

I don't think there should be any state ceremonies of this nature let alone for an object of (partisan) idolatry. Edited April 15, 2013 by snowychap

[snowychap]

excellent post, for me the best post in this thread by far

Ha ha ha.

For me, your's is the most 'predictable' post in this thread by far.

[Wainy316]

Funny how the lefties become the baying bloodthirsty mob all of a sudden.

[Seat68]

all of a sudden, I have been looking forward to her demise since 1979. No sudden about that.

[peterms]

Funny how the lefties become the baying bloodthirsty mob all of a sudden.

 

I think you'll find the reaction, on both sides, is about her as a symbol and figurehead for a set of values, policies and actions, not as an individual.

[Wainy316]

 

Funny how the lefties become the baying bloodthirsty mob all of a sudden.

 

I think you'll find the reaction, on both sides, is about her as a symbol and figurehead for a set of values, policies and actions, not as an individual.

 

 

Well that symbol effectively died in 1990.

It's the over the top rejoicing about the physical death of an old lady that's unsettling.  Especially coming from the same people that criticised the American reaction to Bin Laden's death.