The Randy Lerner thread

[MagicMushroom]

 

It's not so much praise I guess, it's more that we should be grateful that we have an owner prepared to lavish enourmous sums of money on our team, it's a blessing. Of course on the other hand, if he wasn't so occasionally bone stupid, he could probably do a lot more with it. I'll take generous and daft though.

I'm struggling to see why we should be grateful for the last 3 years. Especially when the last 2 have been the worst in our premiership history.

 

 

 

 

I think the argument is that "oh well, hes nothing like Venky's, so lets cream his arse"

 

We have been transformed into the new Bolton because of the decisions he has made, and we are supposed to say thankyou.

 

Staggering

[CVByrne]

People somehow thing that merely putting money into a club absolves him of any blame for other mistakes. He came in and mismanaged the club financially, then made 2 years of shambolic managerial appointments and he was rather lucky Lambert was the blindly obvious choice last summer. 

 

An owners job is not simply about putting money into the club. People should realise that.

[MagicMushroom]

People somehow thing that merely putting money into a club absolves him of any blame for other mistakes. He came in and mismanaged the club financially, then made 2 years of shambolic managerial appointments and he was rather lucky Lambert was the blindly obvious choice last summer. 

 

An owners job is not simply about putting money into the club. People should realise that.

 

 

 

 

This

[carlitobrigante]

peoples anger at lerner is misplaced. its blatantly obvious how much he cares about the club, and how much of his personal wealth he has pumped in.

 

For me, he has only made 2 x mistakes  in all his time here. Backing MON to the hilt, and signing Mcleish. Everything else has been positive. Fans are quick to forget the millions he has pumped in, the improvements to our facilities, the fact he has kept our ticket prices so low etc etc

 

Now people criticise him for backing MON, but every villa fan here was asking for exactly that. Almost every fan he came across was hailing MON as the messiah. So he backed him and backed him big time. Not Lerners fault MON was so appalling at signing players. When it became obvious we had pushed too far financially, and it wasnt going to work, rather than let us sink he plowed more money in, and we then made the inevitable cutbacks. Can we really blame a new naive owner, new to the ownership game, for backing his manager with everything he can financially?

 

Next came Mcleish. How this came about i will never know, and it was almost a fatal mistake by Lerner. No doubt he got bad advice from his advisors, but the fact that Mcleish somehow won a trophy while working at such a shambolic club probably helped sway him. It was stupid decision, and for me, the only black mark against him.

 

Why he gets the hatred from some i dont know, and i think its kind of sad for me. For me, the good far outweighs the bad and we are lucky to have him.

 

CVByrne makes me laugh with his hopes for him to sell up and we get new owners. Have you seen the likes of people queing up to buy football clubs these days? Its a lottery, and the odds are of us getting either some russian mafioso, some shady arab petro billionaires that will suck any soul out of the club, or chancers looking to pile the debt on the club and make a fast buck. You really want to risk our club like that, when things look so promising long term?

 

No thanks, ill stick with what we have.

[choffer]

Pretty much sums it up for me too. He made a huge mistake with the ginger one and hindsight shows that Houllier was a mistake but that couldn't have been known at the time.

He also acted to curb MONs spending and MON spat the dummy. He gambled and lost on that one.

I'm hoping that history will show that the current model will be a success and I'm glad we've got an owner who I believe cares about the club.

Having said that, if I were in his position, I'd have jumped ship long since for all the abuse he gets.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

People somehow thing that merely putting money into a club absolves him of any blame for other mistakes. He came in and mismanaged the club financially, then made 2 years of shambolic managerial appointments and he was rather lucky Lambert was the blindly obvious choice last summer.

An owners job is not simply about putting money into the club. People should realise that.

Rather condescending don't you think? Who are these "people" you talk of?

[CVByrne]

peoples anger at lerner is misplaced. its blatantly obvious how much he cares about the club, and how much of his personal wealth he has pumped in.

 

For me, he has only made 2 x mistakes  in all his time here. Backing MON to the hilt, and signing Mcleish. Everything else has been positive. Fans are quick to forget the millions he has pumped in, the improvements to our facilities, the fact he has kept our ticket prices so low etc etc

 

Now people criticise him for backing MON, but every villa fan here was asking for exactly that. Almost every fan he came across was hailing MON as the messiah. So he backed him and backed him big time. Not Lerners fault MON was so appalling at signing players. When it became obvious we had pushed too far financially, and it wasnt going to work, rather than let us sink he plowed more money in, and we then made the inevitable cutbacks. Can we really blame a new naive owner, new to the ownership game, for backing his manager with everything he can financially?

 

Next came Mcleish. How this came about i will never know, and it was almost a fatal mistake by Lerner. No doubt he got bad advice from his advisors, but the fact that Mcleish somehow won a trophy while working at such a shambolic club probably helped sway him. It was stupid decision, and for me, the only black mark against him.

 

Why he gets the hatred from some i dont know, and i think its kind of sad for me. For me, the good far outweighs the bad and we are lucky to have him.

 

CVByrne makes me laugh with his hopes for him to sell up and we get new owners. Have you seen the likes of people queing up to buy football clubs these days? Its a lottery, and the odds are of us getting either some russian mafioso, some shady arab petro billionaires that will suck any soul out of the club, or chancers looking to pile the debt on the club and make a fast buck. You really want to risk our club like that, when things look so promising long term?

 

No thanks, ill stick with what we have.

 

 

Of course we blame him for poor mismanagement of the clubs finances. It's his bloody job to run the club correctly ffs. We fans to have access to the books and it's not our job to run the club. It's also not the Managers job to run the club either, he manages the team. 

 

Randy Lerner came in and mismanaged the club in a clear gamble to get Champions League football. When City came in with their billions it became clear that it wasn't going to work. So now we are suffering still for that big error. 

 

also to think that we can only sell to a billionare or some arab oil oligarch is such a stupid ignorant point for defense or Lerner. I want football people, look at Spurs they are run exceptionally well. Brave decisions with when they got rid of managers have been the correct ones too. 

 

You try to see it all in black and white, saying you're either totally for Lerner or totally against him. When it is always shades of grey. I have no faith in his ability to run this football club. I worry if he has to make another managerial appointment, I worry he will fail to see when its time for a manager to be backed, etc...

 

I simply don't think he is the right man to own this football club. Despite any good intentions. 

[Risso]

You really want to risk our club like that, when things look so promising long term?

 

No thanks, ill stick with what we have.

 

Why are things looking so promising in your opinion?  That isn't a loaded question, I'm genuinely interested to know.  I think people are getting carried away by an initial flurry of transfers, which let's not forget, are a load of cheap unheard of kids.  They might work out, but I'm struggling to think of a club that has been successful selling all of its best players and replacing them with bargain basement kids.  You can't argue with the signing of Benteke of course, but then of course he wasn't cheap.

[CVByrne]

Exactly Risso, lest people forget Arsenal secured our Premier League status 5 days before the end of the season. Imagine we had a couple of injuries, Benteke and Vlaar in September. Do people not think we'd be in a relegation dog fight again. 

 

Do people also not remember we have been mostly a top half club for most of the premier league era. So to be down in these relegation dog fights 3 years running under what was supposed to be the man to "save us" from Doug. 

 

Simple proper management of this club could have had us replicate Everton or better. 

[Ironsid]

There's no question that Lerner has made mistakes but it looks like he may have learned from them. As an enthusiastic amateur he bought this club and set out with what proved to be over ambitious plans and fell flat on his face, to the cost of us all. But he must have been relying on the advice of people who supposedly knew something about how to run a Premier League club. In this he seems to have been badly served. I'm not happy about the way things have gone in the last couple of years but some sort of achievable aim seems to have been arrived at. If some multi-billionaire comes in and wants to finance us to the next level, allowing for F.F.P. then great. I'm a bit wary of the chancers and spivs that seem to be attaching themselves to football. They seem to see clubs as a way of making a few bob or massaging their egos. For every Abramovich there's potentially a Cheung or Venky. Just my thoughts and there are probably a large number of posters who disagree.

[CVByrne]

There's no question that Lerner has made mistakes but it looks like he may have learned from them. 

 

Can you explain why you think he has learned from them, or what evidence is there he has? He's merely slashing the wage bill and drastically reducing spending because he has to, he's run the club into this situation. Also we got lucky last summer that there were a few good managers available and nobody else wanted Lambert. His signing of Benteke was the key to us staying up. 

[TrentVilla]

But he must have been relying on the advice of people who supposedly knew something about how to run a Premier League club. In this he seems to have been badly served.

 

And who might they be?

 

Because he got rid of the people there before him, they were closely followed by the people he hired and that left Randy and Faulkner running the show. So I'm not quite sure who's advice it was he was following because from the outside looking in it appears to be the exact opposite and the problems stem from the fact he seemingly wasn't listening to anyone who knew what they were doing and arsed it all up on his own. The only person you could perhaps claim he was taking advice from is O'Neill but if that were the case he is an idiot.

 

He hasn't been badly served it his fault.

 

[BOF]

There's no question that Lerner has made mistakes but it looks like he may have learned from them.

 

Can you explain why you think he has learned from them, or what evidence is there he has? He's merely slashing the wage bill and drastically reducing spending because he has to, he's run the club into this situation. Also we got lucky last summer that there were a few good managers available and nobody else wanted Lambert. His signing of Benteke was the key to us staying up.

The fact that he is bringing the wage down to a sustainable level from where it was could be seen as evidence that he is learning his lessons. You asked for evidence that he's learning and then in the next sentence you say that he got us into one situation and is now getting us out of it. Couldn't that be seen as learning? No-one is ignoring that he got us into the mess by over-trusting O'Neill. That's precisely what he has learned from. It's also a bit convenient to claim that he got lucky in hiring Lambert. Lambert was the outstanding candidate last season. Most people wanted him. The fans chanted his name at Carrow Road. Lerner went out and got his man. He got the job done and together they've gone about turning this squad around. In one calendar year we've almost gone from an overage overpaid squad of unmotivated shite to one of the most exciting and young squads in the league. Yes of course the signing of Benteke was key to our fortunes last season, but Lambert identified that player and got him. Lerner gave him the money to do that and we've now signed basically 5 players this summer half way through June. There's enough evidence there for someone who doesn't have an entrenched opinion to say that it's all looking a bit rosier at the moment.

The problem is that people jump immediately on the negatives but not so immediately on the positives. That's their prerogative but they must concede that that approach appears to lack objectivity from the outside. I think pride in one's own opinion and the fear of a loss of face involved with any climb-down is also a lot to do with that.

[Risso]

Indeed Trent.  It was Lerner's decision to get rid of anybody with any actual ability and replace them with his customer care manager from MBNA and General Krulak with all his populist marketing bullshit.  I will never forget The General on here coming out with something like "inagine what McLeish will be able to achieve with the backing of Lerner!!!!!111111".  He left shortly after that, taking with him his "Proudy History" slogan and unravelling it at his new college.

[NIVillan]

Exactly Risso, lest people forget Arsenal secured our Premier League status 5 days before the end of the season. Imagine we had a couple of injuries, Benteke and Vlaar in September. Do people not think we'd be in a relegation dog fight again. 

 

 

Arsenal did not secure our Premier League Status.  Aston Villa secured their own status by managing to gather enough points to stay up.  Wigan  in the same amount of games did not gather enough points so they went down.

 

We didnt make it easy for ourselves and left it a bit late but the points gained were of our own doing.  We was not awarded more points because Arsenal managed to beat Wigan. 

[Eames]

The desire for an unnamed "new owner" worries me.

 

FFP prevents us from somehow landing an Arab Sheik or Russian Oligarch that will pump (b/m)illions in because we simply dont have the turnover or profile to make such an arrangement work. Why do you think City have comparatively reigned in their massive transfer splurges?

 

So without the benefits of the above you end up with 2 options - what we have ie: a wealthy bloke prepared to invest who yes has made some big mistakes in his time here but has ultimately been of benefit to the club and its supporters OR you have Venky's, Carson Yeung etc.

 

Lerner is the only realistic safe and stable option for Villa at the moment.

[MagicMushroom]

 

 

There's no question that Lerner has made mistakes but it looks like he may have learned from them.

 

Can you explain why you think he has learned from them, or what evidence is there he has? He's merely slashing the wage bill and drastically reducing spending because he has to, he's run the club into this situation. Also we got lucky last summer that there were a few good managers available and nobody else wanted Lambert. His signing of Benteke was the key to us staying up.

 

The fact that he is bringing the wage down to a sustainable level from where it was could be seen as evidence that he is learning his lessons. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ive noted the word "could" since it may equally mean that he is bringing costs (debt assembled by his decisions) down for an easier sale.

[bannedfromHandV]

Wow, Lerner in making mistake shocker, proving he's human afterall.

We all make mistakes, the higher your profile the more significant the mistake.

I'm still behind Lerner and always have been (I think), he's not an arabillionaire so let's forget about chucking obscene amounts of cash around, he's rectified mistakes quite quickly - yes the last three seasons have been shite but two managers paid for it immediately after the season ended and the current one has shown enough to earn another year.

We had to be tight on money for various reasons but not least cos we had a LOT of overpaid, demotivated players who no-one else wanted to buy and/or couldn't afford (wages) so the period of austerity has been well and truly needed, we're now moving away from this and hey presto we start making signings again in volume if not in high values.

Too many 'football managers' on here who see it all very black and white.

[CVByrne]

The problem is that people jump immediately on the negatives but not so immediately on the positives. That's their prerogative but they must concede that that approach appears to lack objectivity from the outside. I think pride in one's own opinion and the fear of a loss of face involved with any climb-down is also a lot to do with that.

 

That is the common problem with discussions on forums. I'd be massively guilty of similar stuff in years past. But I'm far more open minded, pragmatic and analytical. Mainly down the financial gains listening to others opinions can yield in horse race betting.

 

My opinions on Lerner now are not intransigent views from the acrimonious ending of the MON era as they used to be. I see MON was and is a football dinosaur. I think his strong personality was a factor in Lerner not running the club correctly. Not getting in a proper CEO to run the place for years. 

 

As for the corrections of the wage bill, how do you know it's Lerner learning from mistakes. It clearly has big link to Financial fair Play rules etc.. Lambert he did get in. which he can take some credit for but given his record on past managers it's hard to think it wasn't more than a large slice of convenient timing and luck on Lerners part. 

 

It boils down to nobody really making any strong cases for him being a competent owner bar his financial input in signings in years past. Putting money in is probably the easiest thing to do. running a club is much more than that.

 

We are where we are because of him. There is no denying that, we can lay blame at manager or others but he is the man in charge of those who work for him. He has a huge amount to prove before I have any faith in him to bring us forward long term. 

[SikhInTrinity]

 

The problem is that people jump immediately on the negatives but not so immediately on the positives. That's their prerogative but they must concede that that approach appears to lack objectivity from the outside. I think pride in one's own opinion and the fear of a loss of face involved with any climb-down is also a lot to do with that.

 

That is the common problem with discussions on forums. I'd be massively guilty of similar stuff in years past. But I'm far more open minded, pragmatic and analytical. Mainly down the financial gains listening to others opinions can yield in horse race betting.

 

My opinions on Lerner now are not intransigent views from the acrimonious ending of the MON era as they used to be. I see MON was and is a football dinosaur. I think his strong personality was a factor in Lerner not running the club correctly. Not getting in a proper CEO to run the place for years. 

 

As for the corrections of the wage bill, how do you know it's Lerner learning from mistakes. It clearly has big link to Financial fair Play rules etc.. Lambert he did get in. which he can take some credit for but given his record on past managers it's hard to think it wasn't more than a large slice of convenient timing and luck on Lerners part. 

 

It boils down to nobody really making any strong cases for him being a competent owner bar his financial input in signings in years past. Putting money in is probably the easiest thing to do. running a club is much more than that.

 

We are where we are because of him. There is no denying that, we can lay blame at manager or others but he is the man in charge of those who work for him. He has a huge amount to prove before I have any faith in him to bring us forward long term. 

 

 

Timing of what exactly, Lambert was in a job at the time. He approached Norwich and PL, and the guy wanted to come, it's as simple as that, all this timing is nonsense. Liverpool, WBA, Swansea all needed a manager at the same time.